My Perfect General Purpose Rifles Ramblings (Long)

Charles S

New member
I write this in my personal quest for my perfect rifle. Let me define my personal rifle: A rifle to be my general purpose hunting rifle and my every day carry rifle.

I also posted this on the sister sight: THR

The first question to be answered is: does a general purpose rifle exist? Noted author and hunter Jim Carmichel does believe that they exist. In Mr. Carmichel’s book The Book of the Rifle he once wrote: “There is no shortage of all purpose rifles - where are the all purpose hunters?” Mr. Carmichel defines the all-purpose rifle as a rifle that will be convenient to the successful hunting of all North American big game. Carmichel further specifies that the all-purpose rifle should have the following qualities. The all-pupose rifle should be fast handling and accurate. Carmichel does not specify a weight limitation, but does provide a recommended cartridge list for North America that starts with the 270 Winchester and ends with the 30-06, the only magnum included in his list for a general purpose cartridge for North America is the 7mm Remington Magnum.

Noted author and shooter Jack O’Conner felt that the all around rifle should generally be a bolt action with a barrel length of around 22 inches. Mr. O’Conner felt that the ideal rifle should have low power optics and further specifies a four power range that were mounted in quick detachable mounts, to facilitate the utilization of fixed sights as a back up. Mr. O’Conner’s caliber selection starts with the 270 and includes the 308, 30-06 and the 7X57. Mr. O’Conner further elaborates that the rifle should weigh no more than eight pounds including all accessories. Mr. O’Conner does state the importance of a good sling on the rifle.

Let us further narrow our choices for the perfect rifle for me. Clyde Ormond’s Book Hunting states a rifle should weigh no more than 1/20th of your total body weight. That means for myself at a body weight of 191# my rifle should not weigh more than 9.55 # loaded and ready to go. I am going to choose a little more stringent standard. My hunting generally involves a lot of walking and fully intend on continuing this style of hunting. Further, I intend to hunt in the mountains. I want a rifle that is no heavier than 8 # ready to go. This is roughly a 15% reduction in the recommended weight. Mr. Carmichel states the rifle should be capable and convenient to hunt all game I intend on hunting. I will further state that I think the rifle should be capable of handling all situations that I will encounter while hunting.

My hunting trips tend to involve inclement weather. My luck is such that if I have planned a hunting trip, the weather will not cooperate. I am not going to complain because I have had some excellent success in inclement weather. I am going to specify that the rifle should be an all weather configuration.

The above specification have just ruled out all pump and auto loading rifles in current production. There are very few leaver actions that will meet my specifications.

At this point it could be suggested I buy a Winchester Model Classic Stainless in 375 H&H Magnum. This rifle weighs 7# 4 oz put a great Leupold 3-9 Compact Scope that weighs only 8.8 oz with rings mounts and a sling you come in under the maximum recommended weight limit (total weight should be around 8# 10 oz) and this rifle will handle anything that walks in North America.

While I agree that this is one solution, the biggest problem with that approach is that Mr. Carmichel specified that this rifle be convenient to all the game I intend on hunting. This rifle is less than ideal for hunting white tails in the thickets of the South, there are better choices for hunting antelope and while it would be perfect for hunting the big bears in Alaska, this rifle is probably awkward for Black Tail in the West.

Ideally the platform will have no greater recoil than 40 foot pounds this is about where I start to have problems on the bench. With anything that recoils about 30 foot pounds I really have to concentrate after the first 10-20 rounds. This requirement rules out all caliber greater than the 338 Winchester Magnum.

The game I primarily hunt is the Southern White Tail, I also hunt Feral Hogs the largest of which generally are no larger than 400#.

The land I hunt is primarily pine thickets and deciduous forest. I do hunt clear cut areas and right of ways where shots can be as far as the one is willing to shoot. I do not intend on making a shot that is longer than 300 yards on the really large game.

What kind on accuracy does this type of hunting require? If one assumes that a White Tail deer has a 8 inch kill zone and the longest shot I will take is 450 yards, that means my rifle can shoot an 8 inch group at 450 yards in field conditions, so lets say we want a 1.5 MOA rifle and this will give me a greater margin of error. A 1.5 MOA rifle will shoot a 6 inch group at 400 yards.

I would like to hunt antelope, mule deer, the bigger Northern White Tail deer, Black Tail deer, Cous Deer, Moose, Caribou, and Elk. I have no desire to hunt the bears, but I do fully intend on hunting in bear country. If I can avoid a confrontation I will, but I intend on defending myself if necessary.

The easiest way to work this out is to start with the minimum caliber necessary and work up. People with more experience than myself state that the minimum energy for White Tail is 1000 foot pounds and this energy should be delivered with a bullet with a sectional density of no less than .210. The same sources would suggest that the minimum for Elk is 1500 foot pounds of energy with a sectional density of no less than .270. Most experts also recommend that the minimum caliber for Elk starts with .264.

In the standard calibers the 6.5X55 Swede is the base caliber that can meet these requirements. In the short action calibers the 260 Remington meets the requirements set forth. In the magnum calibers the 264 Winchester Magnum easily meets these requirements, the 140 gr bullet has a sectional density of .287 higher than the 180 gr 30 caliber bullet with an initial velocity of 3100 FPS the 264 Win Mag has retained energies of greater than 1500 foot pounds at 400 yards. In the newer short magnums the 270 Winchester Short Magnum easily meets these minimums.

The above paragraph establishes the minimum caliber requirements. The next choice is which caliber not only meets the minimum requirements, but can perform the above mentioned task at a minimum, conveniently and ideally will perform all the task well.

An additional caveat is; the ammo should be available at major retailers. This rules out the 6.5X55, 264 Winchester Magnum, the 7X57, the 8-06, the 8 mm Remington Magnum, the 338-06 and the 338 Winchester Magnum. This is not really a problem because that leaves us with the 270, 280, and 30-06 in the long. The 7-08, 308 and the newer 338 Federal in the short actions. The 270 Winchester short magnum, 7mm short magnums and the 30 caliber short magnums in both the Remington and Winchester offerings. The 7mm Remington magnum and the 300 Winchester and Weatherby magnums are also available.

Additionally since so much of the hunting describe happens in heavy cover the barrel length should be restricted to 23-24 inches. Because of efficiency issues this really rules out the 300 Weatherby magnum. Since a lighter rifle is desired the heavier recoiling calibers are less desirable.

Noted rifleman, author, and warrior Colonel Jeff Cooper recently stated expressed the following thoughts.

In considering the matter of firearms design, I have long given importance to the factor of handiness, portability and ease of use. It has always seemed to me that a rifle should be compact, comfortable to use, and as light as recoil effect permits. This is because I have always considered hunting to be an active pastime, not something one does riding around in a vehicle or sitting in a blind. Times change, and I discover, somewhat to my distress, that huge and unhandy sporting rifles seem to have great appeal to some sorts of hunters.

I agree that a rifle should have good handling characteristics, be maneuverable and easy to carry.

Continued
 

Charles S

New member
So my ideal rifle is a 7-08, 308, 270, 280, 30-06, 270 Winchester Short Magnum, 7mm Short Magnum, 300 Short Magnum, 7mm Remington Magnum or the 300 Winchester Magnum, in a stainless steel configuration, that weighs no more than 8# including the scope and sling. This rifle will have no greater than a 44 ½ overall length, this dictates a barrel length of no more than 24 inches and this rifle will preferably have a backup sighting system.

I have had cheaper scopes fail, a Simmons ATEC catastrophically, a Tasco and a Weaver have both fogged on me. I have never had a good scope fail, I have used Nikon and Leupold without problems. I have had a rifle fall (the rope in the stand was frayed and broke) about 16 feet land on a Leupold Vari X III scope in Weaver rings and bases and it did not break the scope (honestly it did not even change the point of impact). On an important hunt I want a back up, so I think QD mounts and rings with open sights or QD mounts with two scopes. I am not sure which I would prefer. Honestly in today’s market few rifles have sights, it would probably be easier to have a backup scope. I have a used Leupold fixed 4X that would work well.

My current solution for optic failure at this time is just to take a second rifle

For the main optics I think an intermediate power variable 2-7 or 2.5-8 should be about perfect.

Honestly caliber is less important to me than platform, shorter and lighter is better. I currently own a 30-30, 308s, 270s, 30-06, 300 Short Magnums, and 300 Winchester Magnums. I will probably go with a non-magnum with 22 inches of barrel and lighter overall weight.

I appreciate any input or thoughts. We have had a lot of caliber discussions lately and I am interested in everyone’s input. Do I own the perfect rifle? No, none of my current rifles meet all the requirements set forth, on the closest one all I need is a backup set of optics. Honestly the rifle that is closest to my perceived requirements is what I reach for anyway.
 
Good stuff. I've thought about this a lot myself. I lean more towards combat arms. I think the Urban Carbine(M4 or similar spec., from Mini 14 to Beretta AR-70, Bushmaster M-17S to Sig 556, but a .223) is pretty versatile and has replaced the combat shotgun, full length/select fire Assault Rifle, and SMG (and pistol cal. carbine) in tactical usage. The .223 has some applications for sniping in urban areas as well. The .223 has always been my choice.
I started to wonder if a a carbine-length Battle Rifle mike make a better all around choice for a person limited to one rifle, everything from a sniper to a deer rifle. It is pretty heavy for anything close range let alone indoors. But a M1A/HK-91/FAL/AR-10 for any longer range or larger/harder targets you see the value of having a real rifle. But the .243 and .260 versions of the AR-10 and SA-58 made me wonder if something midsize like that might be a better choice, being intermediate, and though not having the lower cost of bulk surplus .308 or .223, the .243 especially is a common sporting round that could be found in any department or hardware store, anywhere. The same cannot be said of the 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel. Smith Arms made a shorty M1A, similar in length to the Socom, but much different, better, although with a short bbl (11.5") this particular rifle became one of my dream guns over the last year or so but have never seen one for sale and do not believe Smith Arms still builds custom guns if they are even around. It is in .308, but has a unique gas system based on the M60 MG, long vortex flash, etc. It can be fired from the shoulder in full auto on the M14 versions with no muzzle rize. Probably would make your ears bleed without plugs. But anyway, that was my idea of the ideal rifle. Never really liked the heft of the .308 battle rifles but would learn to deal with it.

In the immediate future, the only rifles (and owning none at this time) I plan to be getting are an AR-15-DPMS Panther Lightweight or maybe just an ordinary 20" HBAR RRA now that the shorties are so popular. Then, a 10/22 to gradually accessorize and accurize. Not being a hunter, those two would really do everything I need from a rifle, which is simply to have fun, and just be there.
 
BTW, always thought a scout system was a great idea. Not my kind of gun but always admired the Steyr Scout. Might make a good project for those of limited funds, converting a surplus Mauser into similar configuration.
 

Charles S

New member
I have built one on a Remington Model 600 action. It is very handy and very fast. The one disadvantage that Cooper (to my knowledge) did not address is that for me this optic system does not work well with the Sun very low in the sky in front of you or behind you - I get a huge reflection into my eyes in the morning if I am facing West or in the evening if I am facing East. Since I spend a lot of time in the woods and some of the best hunting is early and late this system does not work well for me for a general purpose rifle.

It truly is one of my favorite stalking rifles.
 

Jimro

New member
Long ramblings all right

For a hunting rifle iron sights are a must, they can save a hunt.

All the calibers you have listed are good, pick the one that recoils the least so you can practice more.

Synthetics stocks are ugly but very useful. Kevlar and fiberglass stocks are great for those that hunt in inclement weather. Stainless steel is also great. Injection molded synthetic stocks are best avoided if possible.

My recommendation is a Charles Daly stainless steel mauser in 270 Win (or the Remington version) or Savage Weather Warrior, sell the stock it comes with and buy a Bell & Carson Carbelite. Toss in a Bold or Timney trigger if you decide on a Mauser. Have a gunsmith install good iron sights and two piece weaver bases. You'll have a semi-custom rifle that will perform well in all weather in a caliber that has ammo available everywhere.

Or you could start with a Browning A-bolt stainless stalker.

Lots of good options.

Jimro
 

TPAW

New member
does a general purpose rifle exist?

Yes, it's called a shot gun. Rem 870 Express Super Magnum Pump Combo. Rifled barrell and Vent Rib barrell. Just about do it all.........;)
 

Charles S

New member
TPAW,

I own several 870's. They do not, nor does yours meet or even come close to meeting my requirements of a general purpose rifle.

I routinely kill game in excess of 200 yards and have killed game at just a hair over 400, a shotgun just cannot meet my perceived needs in a general purpose rifle.

Shotguns have their place, they are not rifles.
 

Cheese

New member
My current pick is a Browning Stainless Stalker in 30-06 (although I would cheat and chamber it for 6.5-284 Norma since I reload and can make ammo anywhere easily with a hand press) I would also cheat and just buy a second scope with quick detach bases and rings both sighted in. I think compromises like these are necessary to meet all of your requirements (and mine). I would go with Leupold optics (4-12x50 or better).
 

liliysdad

New member
For me, my perfect general use duties are split between two rifles. Either one will do what I need, just depends on the mood I am in.

The first is my pseudo-Scout Rifle. Remington 700 in .308, B-square scout mount with Leupold M8 2x scope, 18" barrel.

The second is my Marlin 336 in 30-30. 16" barrel, Marbles ivory bead front sight with Wiliams WGRS rear aperture sight. The gun is currently being fitted with an Ashley Outdoors / XS sights scout mount, and very well may get a red dot sight of some kind.

With these two guns, I can take any game in my state, or any surrounding one. With the introduction of the Leverevoluton ammunition, the gap narrows somewhat between the two rifles.

these are my go-to rifles, and see no need to change.
 

taylorce1

New member
My current solution for optic failure at this time is just to take a second rifle

I take two rifles when I travel to hunt as well but if I ever have a scope failure when hunting I doubt I'll be close enough to camp for it to be convient. I do like my hunting rifles to have both iron sights and optics. It is rare to find new rifle with iron sights these days which is a shame IMO.

Scope failures were probably more common in O'Connor's day than they are today. I like 1.75-6X32 and 2.5-8 VXIII the best which I feel give the best balance over a fixed 4X. Too high of power on the low end will make it hard to locate a target in your scope. Any variable scope that starts out higher than a 4X won't make a good big game hunting scope again my opinion only.

Honestly caliber is less important to me than platform, shorter and lighter is better. I currently own a 30-30, 308s, 270s, 30-06, 300 Short Magnums, and 300 Winchester Magnums. I will probably go with a non-magnum with 22 inches of barrel and lighter overall weight.

I'll take this one step further and say that there is no bad caliber as long as long as it is legal for the type of game you are hunting and the hunter can shoot it proficently. I do prefer a heavier rifle 8-9 pounds over a light rifle 7 pounds or less. When chasing elk above 7000 feet I find the heavier rifle easier to steady over the light rifle when it comes time to make the shot.
 
Top