My new (to me, at least) P7M8!!!

[Mylhouse]

Whaaaaaaaaasuuuuuuup??!! Anyone see Leno last night about Al Gore on the phones? Hilarious!

Anyway, yesterday I picked up a P7 that I bought unseen off a fellow TFLer. It was in 98-99% condition (very minor holster wear near the muzzle) with only about 300 rounds fired. Actually, the previous owner sent the gun back to the factory to have another barrel installed because the original had problems chambering his favorite load. So the new barrel had only a few rounds through it. It came with the matching box, manual, cleaning tools, 2 mags, and Trijicon night sights. The gun is a '97 model (KH). After paying the transfer fee to my favorite FFL dealer (incidentally Tom at G&S Gun Room...I know shameless plug), I walked out a happy man, although 820 George Washingtons lighter. I'm sure some of you gun savvy buyers may have been able to get a better deal, but considering how nice a gun this is, and how much guns mean to me personally, this pistol was well worth it.

Well, I took it out last night, and ran it through the mini-wringer. I put 250 rounds of ammo (all I had was S.A. Denel PMP 115 gr FMJ) through it, and as expected, it performed flawlessly. It shot right to P.O.A., and boy, did the empties go flying! What a nice shooting gun! Along the way, I made a few observations...

1) When resting it (for accuracy) with a relaxed grip, a few times I inadvertently released the squeeze cocker during recoil, decocking the pistol. It'll take some getting used to.
2) I shot about 50 rounds as fast as I could reload and fire again. The sides of the gun definitely got warm just above the heat shield, but I wouldn't call it hot! I've read numerous times about people complaining about the heat generated and how it made for an impractical fighting pistol, but I say this is bunk! Either we have a bunch of nit-pickers here that have to find fault in everything, or we have a few tiptoes amongst us. Sorry, just stating my opinions!
3) Overall, the pistol was among the best I've fired, but it isn't some magical pistol that some make it out to be. It was as accurate as any pistol I've ever shot, but not noticeably more so. What I mean is, I'd definitely rank the pistol among the best there is, but I wouldn't say it's significantly better than some other offerings. Case in point-does the $800 P7 do anything that my $400 CZ75B won't do as far as getting 9mm bullets to the target? Not really. But would I do it all over again considering the price? Hell, yes! I'm a gun purist/lover! I don't care if I spent $100 or $1000 on a gun. What matters is if I'm happy with it and that I wanted it and got it. I feel that guns are the greatest investment/ way to spend your money there is.

Wow, I kinda went off on a tangent. Sorry this was somewhat long winded, but I wanted to share my report and some of my thoughts with the rest of you.

BTW, thanks, Jeff!

Mylhouse

 

[VictorLouis]

Glad to hear about your great results! I've been pondering the thought of getting another P7 myself. But your right, I find it hard to see what it does much better than my Kahr. Wait a minute, faster firing, less recoil, a bit more accurate(due to single action trigger), and more exotic. Heck, it's worth it!

 

[jwong]

Congrats on the purchase of a fine gun... Yes, the squeeze cocker will take a little getting used to... Have fun...

 

[MRW]

Congratulations on your new purchase.

As to whether the P7 does anything better than the best of other handguns, I submit that it does. There are other guns as accurate, but they are larger. There are other guns with less recoil, but not in a major caliber. There are other guns that are as safe, but not that can be brought into action as quickly. There are other guns as easy to shoot well, but not as safe. There are other guns in major caliber as easy to carry--even more so--but not with the performance of the P7. There may be other guns as reliable and as long lasting, but the P7 is absolutely the best of the best in this category. But there are NO other defensive handguns with ALL of these firsts. The P7, by large margin, is simply the best defensive handgun in the world. Pistol enthusiasts cannot but appreciate the many outstanding gun designs out there. But for someone who merely wants the best pistol for defensive use and otherwise has other deeper interests, there would be nothing to compare to a P7. Superlatives all, but this gun deserves it.

 

[Mylhouse]

Thanks, guys. MRW, I see your points. I guess that I was smitten by "HK" mystique and immaturely expected some magical, reality transcending experience when shooting the gun. I think that some of us anticipate this when spending serious money on a pistol. I have no regrets and cannot find flaw in the pistol. I love it. It brings another facet to my handgun collection. It does everything I expected it to do, except fulfill my daydreams of rapid firing a mag at 25 yards, then walking over to the target to discover all 8 rounds went through the same hole (as I blow the wafting gunsmoke from the muzzle like Doc Holliday).
Have any of you benchrested the gun at 15 or 25 yards for groups? Any favorite loads? Jeff mentioned Corbons and Federal 115 gr as some of his personal faves.
Victor, please e-mail me. I tried to email you using the link from TFL, to no avail.

 

[One]

MRW

The points you list proving the H&k's "superiority" make me smile at the least. Accuracy: While a small percentage of accuracy can be attributed to the weapon how about the operator. This gun will not, I repeat,not make you into a mystical pistol marksman. Recoil: I owned a P7M13, and the recoil is no more controlled than that of a Glock 19. I found the P7 to have more of a muzzle flip. Safety: If you're relying on the gun for saftey features, maybe you shouldn't carry one. How about weapon retention. This my gun is so safe because you have to squeeze it makes me laugh. Speed: Please, I shoot any pistol(Sigs, Berettas,Glocks, etc)as fast as an P7 can be employed. Again, not the pistol, its the operators experience and training. Fast is drawing a Glock 22 from a Safariland threat level II holster firing two rounds center mass and scanning in 1.23secs. I am secure enough in my abilities to duplicate this with any of the pistols I own. I said before, the P7 series is a good gun. But to claim it is the best, I'm not buying.

Be Safe
Mike

PS Fire 500 rds in a day and the gun will get HOT!

 

[JH]

Hi Dave: Glad you are pleased with your new M8 and that it functioned flawlessly for you. As you become more familiar with the pistol, you will become less likely to accidentally release the squeezecocker while firing. With regard to heat, I've never had difficulty with heat buildup but I rarely rapid fire more than 50 or so rounds. As far as accuracy, I've had 8 or 10 of these guns over the years and they have all been exceptionally accurate across a wide variety of ammunition. Each gun will have its favorite load but I have found less accuracy variation between loads than in other guns. It shoots everything well. Your particular gun was very accurate with Corbon 115gr hollowpoints but it also did well with everything else I could find. Sawbones reports best accuracy with his P7's using the Remington 124 gr. +P Golden Sabre load but I've never tried it. Hand held from a bench, I expect 25 yard five shot groups at or under 2". My best group ever was 7/8"(my eyes were better then!) and I still routinely get 1.5" groups. The P7 has long been my favorite pistol and I'm glad to welcome you to the ranks. Give me a call if you have any questions about its operation or maintenance.

Best,

Jeff

 

[MRW]

One,

I think you may have missed my point. The P7 requires less skill to shoot to an acceptable level of competence than other pistol designs--this seems to be the majority view among people who know this handgun. Those who are well-trained--which I presume includes you--can shoot many guns well. But find some neophyte--they'll do better with the P7. Which I suspect may be an advantage within the chaos of any armed encounter. Let me see if I have this right....the safety features of a gun are irrelevant based merely on proper gun handling? That might be true if you could TOTALLY CONTROL your environment, but the real world has something called Murphy's Law. The squeeze cocker MAY be an advantage in a grab situation; but the fact that the P7 has a stubby barrel and a big grip ought to make it easier at the minimum to hang onto. But if you don't see these and other advantages of this pistol design you might as well have a Glock or a USP--the P7 would be wasted on you.

 

[Keystone]

I bought a P7M8 this week myself. Let me weigh in with my range report. There is no doubt the pistol is accurate. I could routinely put 5 or 6 shots through the same ragged hole at 10 yards, but I seemed to have a flier or two in evey string. That is my fault, as the trigger is both wider and lighter in pull than my USP. I'll have to work on my trigger control.

Also, I noticed that the gap in the rear sight is quite a bit larger than the thickness of the front sight. This caused me to have some problems with my windage, all of my fliers were left or right of center, with near perfect elevation. In theory, I like the wider rear sight, as it makes it easier to find the front one. Again, getting used to these sights is an adjustment I will have to make.

The pistol had noticeably more recoil than my USP9. The muzzle flip was really surprising, considering the massive grip and low bore axis of the P7. The vertical grooves on the front of the trigger guard did not help my hold with my off hand on the front of the weapon. I even put on a light pair of leather gloves to see if the cold weather was to blame, but I found it hard to keep the index finger of my off hand on the front of the trigger guard during recoil. I guess that USP buffer spring really makes a difference.

I'll second Mylhouse's observation about the healthy ejection of the empty brass. I was pelting the wall with empties from a good 10 feet away. It is easy to find which brass is yours, what with those little black lines around the caes mouths. Looks like a UPC code.

I feel that my ability level in delivering a very accurate first shot has risen with this pistol. Never having fired a P7, I had no hits outside of a 4" circle and had many "knotholes" of shots. The P7 is the "total package" of stock, defensive pistols, especially for a lefty. What a huge comfort improvement during IWB carry compared to my USP9!

 

[One]

MRW

The P7 was wasted on me. I ditched it for a Glock 17 w/ nite sites, three hi-cap mags, two holsters, and 5000rds of ammo. This weapon handles as well, shoots as well, functions flawlessly, and while larger than the P7, I find it no harder to conceal. I'm glad that everyone is happy with their P7 series, but to declare it the best, is far from true. It has its faults. Should you choose to overlook them, that is your decision.

Be Safe
Mike

 

[Mylhouse]

One,

Don't you have anything better to do than spout off about how you got rid of your M13 for a Glock 17, night sights, ammo, reach around, etc? I swear, in every post I've ever read about the P7, I see you in there somewhere, crashing the party, and downing the P7. Who the hell was comparing the P7 to the Glock in the first place, prompting you to jump in?

On a lighter note, thanks again Jeff for the pistol and all the assistance. Victor, check my profile. I just changed it to include my new email address.

 

[One]

Mylhouse

I can see that you are a professional and an expert. Not to mention extremely mature. Sorry to offend you, your holyness. I stand corrected, its good to know that spending $800 on a pistol will make an instant shooting pro of even the most inexperienced of shooters. Forgive me, I will recite the P7 manual of arms 100 times and all will be right again in the world.

 

[Mylhouse]

One,

Read my initial post. Don't confuse me with MRW. I wasn't spouting off about anything-I was being truthful and realistic to myself and to others. I wasn't trying to defend the P7 like so many insecure others do with the Glock.
I'm sorry, you're entitled to your opinion. However, you can bite me.

 

[SAWBONES]

You guys crack me up!
I'll weigh in on this.
(Mylhouse, you made me laugh with your last jibe...bite me!.. Nice to get a chuckle at work.)
As I've posted here (and elsewhere) before, I believe the H&K P7 series of pistols to be an exceptional and unequalled combination of ease-of-use, accuracy-precision, safety, easy concealabilty, and fast speed-of-deployment/speed-of-reloading, among "major caliber" (.355" and bigger) pistols.
The pistol isn't perfect, and it's not everybody's ideal gun.
But it's probably THE single best melding of the above attributes.
I agree that the underside of the trigger guard heating up is only an issue for the "Nancy-Boys."
The P7 does throw the brass, no question. (An annoyance to those who reload; I don't.)
I must admit I've never thought that the P7M8 had much recoil or muzzle whip. I don't notice any difference as compared, say, to my Glock 19s, or if there's any difference, I think the P7 has less.
The only complaints or issues that seem of genuine concern are that the pistol carries only 9 rounds fully loaded, and it DOES take longer to clean because of the gas-retarded blowback system.
The former issue is addressed to my satisfaction with the carrying of two spare magazines (25 rounds total, made easy since the mags are small, flat & lightweight), and by the application of H&K's so-called Continuous Motion Principle, which permits reloading of the P7 to be faster than ANYTHING else out there.
As for cleaning, well, that's a minor point. For me, cleaning guns can be very relaxing.

As noted by others above, there is a tendency for negative criticism to appear on these gun-related bulletin boards much more often than praise or positive criticism. Perhaps this is "human nature" (whatever that may be), but I for one am pleased to have a pistol-system which is so thoroughly satisfactory!

------------------
"Potius sero quam nunquam."

 

[MRW]

Well, to Sawbones's missive it could also be added that the P7 might ideally be lighter, as in being made with a Ti frame (given how expensive it is, this seems reasonable); and might ideally come with a more durable corrosion-proof finish--or be made from stainless steel. You see, One, even the fanatics can at times tell the difference between BEST (the P7), and perfect (nothing yet).

 

[MRW]

Well, to Sawbones's missive it could also be added that the P7 might ideally be lighter, as in being made with a Ti frame (given how expensive it is, this seems reasonable); and might ideally come with a more durable corrosion-proof finish--or be made from stainless steel. You see, One, even the fanatics can at times tell the difference between BEST (the P7), and perfect (nothing yet). Myhouse, didn't you mean "eat me?"

 

[One]

Well I can see that you gentlemen are too mature for me. But, I choose not to exchange bathroom humor, like children. Sad to see owners of firearms act in such a pathetic manner.

 

[Mik]

i'll also chime in and say that my P7M8 is a favorite handgun in my collection. compact, unique, very accurate, utterly reliable, and very safe...it is a unique blend of form and function that really doesn't have an equal. like others have said, it isn't perfect, but it does fulfill it's intended purposes. to be fast into action from a concealed and totally safe condition.

this may not be mature, but "if u don't have anything nice to say about something, don't say anything". rude, snide remarks will always get u classified as a troll. better to list the negative experiences u had with the P7 so that we know why u don't like it and leave it at that. commenting on someone else's "poor choice" and hyping ur own personal choices is not very productive in a forum like this.

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Mik

<A HREF="http://"http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mm.html"" TARGET=_blank>my 10mm page</A>

 

[Mylhouse]

Thank you!

I guess I'm free to go play tiddly winks after I put castor oil in my dog's water bowl.

 

[Gary H]

Just shot my refurbished P7 for the first time. After bringing it home and cleaning it and finding small signs of wear, I realized that this gun had not passed very many rounds. It looked new, except for the grind and ugly slide color.

It seemed very well balanced and easy to point. I hated the rear sight picture for reasons mentioned above. I need to replace the sights. Does the night sight rear Meprolights have a smaller sight gap?

Don't like leather. Where do I find a good synthetic IWB and belt, or paddle mag. holder?

Wow, does this gun get dirty, or what? I've never seen such a mess. I gather that you just ignore most of it and clean the barrel. I compulsively clean a gun. I'm going to have to change my approach, or wait until I retire again to shoot this pistol.