So I just bought a Remington 700 VTR in .308. I'm still shopping for a scope and I'm really excited. I have read that 22" is a perfect length for the .308 but then I was thinking how there is a muzzle break about 2 inches from the end, so does that mean my barrel is effectively a 20" ? The gas escapes before the bullet exits so it doesn't fully take advantage of the last couple inches of travel, right? (as far as velocity is concerned)
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muzzle brake question
- Thread starter Norrick
- Start date
muzzle break
Respectfully, it's
Muzzle BRAKE.
The term comes from its original use on artillery, where the muzzle brake diverted gases to slow—brake—the tube's (that's what they call a barrel in artillery) recoil, taking some of the load off the recuperator (that's the air-oil "shock absorber" that absorbs the recoil and returns the tube to battery) and allowing a lighter recuperator and carriage. Muzzle brakes were of particular value in tanks, as they allowed a lighter, simpler turret.
To answer your question, yes, and no. Yes, some of the gas escapes, but only a portion before the bullet leaves the barrel. Thus, the effective barrel length is something less than the full 22", but not as little as 20". I would venture to say that the velocity loss is negligible.
Regards,
Walt
Last edited:
Measure carefully...
From the bolt face to the muzzle, and subtract the length of the chamber. This is the effective length of your barrel. Measure from the bolt face to the end of the barrel (the end of the muzzle brake if it is permanently attached), this is the legal length of your barrel. Note that they may not be the same.
a nominal 22" barrel length includes the chamber, and usually excludes muzzle attachments like muzzle brakes or flash suppressors or flash hiders. Usually, but not always. It depends on who does the measuring.
One thing to consider, the gasses venting out of a muzzlebrake do not do so until after the bullet has passed the ports. Any velocity loss due to the size of the chamber of the muzzle brake is miniscule, and while it may be measurable (possibly) it is less than the variation in velocity between individual barrels, or even individual rounds. In other words, don't fret about it.
As mentioned, the brake was developed to lessen the recoil stresses on artillery and tank cannon. One additional benefit was discovered for tank guns, the fact that by venting some of the blast to the sides, it reduced the amount of dust (caused by firing) directly in front of the gun. Under some conditions this was a considerable benefit, allowing a faster recovery of sight picture for follow up shots. Under other conditions, not so much. The primary benefit of reduced recoil stress remained the most important factor, as it is for muzzle brakes on small arms.
From the bolt face to the muzzle, and subtract the length of the chamber. This is the effective length of your barrel. Measure from the bolt face to the end of the barrel (the end of the muzzle brake if it is permanently attached), this is the legal length of your barrel. Note that they may not be the same.
a nominal 22" barrel length includes the chamber, and usually excludes muzzle attachments like muzzle brakes or flash suppressors or flash hiders. Usually, but not always. It depends on who does the measuring.
One thing to consider, the gasses venting out of a muzzlebrake do not do so until after the bullet has passed the ports. Any velocity loss due to the size of the chamber of the muzzle brake is miniscule, and while it may be measurable (possibly) it is less than the variation in velocity between individual barrels, or even individual rounds. In other words, don't fret about it.
As mentioned, the brake was developed to lessen the recoil stresses on artillery and tank cannon. One additional benefit was discovered for tank guns, the fact that by venting some of the blast to the sides, it reduced the amount of dust (caused by firing) directly in front of the gun. Under some conditions this was a considerable benefit, allowing a faster recovery of sight picture for follow up shots. Under other conditions, not so much. The primary benefit of reduced recoil stress remained the most important factor, as it is for muzzle brakes on small arms.
This is interesting. I have a FAL with a 17" barrel and a 1.5" permanently attached muzzle brake. I always considered it a 17" barrel velocity wise. So in actuality, I should consider it an 18" barrel?One thing to consider, the gasses venting out of a muzzlebrake do not do so until after the bullet has passed the ports. Any velocity loss due to the size of the chamber of the muzzle brake is miniscule, and while it may be measurable (possibly) it is less than the variation in velocity between individual barrels, or even individual rounds. In other words, don't fret about it.
If the brake is permanently attached...
It is legally part of the barrel. Note the versions of the AR that have a 10.5" (or 11") barrel and a permanently attached 5" or 5.5" flash hider, making them a legal 16" barrel rifle.
For purposes of figuring ballistics the muzzle device doesn't count. For purposes of legal length, if permanently attached, it does. If just threaded on (not welded/silver soldered, etc.) it doesn't.
It is legally part of the barrel. Note the versions of the AR that have a 10.5" (or 11") barrel and a permanently attached 5" or 5.5" flash hider, making them a legal 16" barrel rifle.
For purposes of figuring ballistics the muzzle device doesn't count. For purposes of legal length, if permanently attached, it does. If just threaded on (not welded/silver soldered, etc.) it doesn't.
a nominal 22" barrel length includes the chamber, and usually excludes muzzle attachments like muzzle brakes or flash suppressors or flash hiders. Usually, but not always. It depends on who does the measuring.
its actually machined into the barrel, its not an attachment on the end. I haven't taken a good look at it yet, so I don't know if it has rifling after the portion of the muzzle brake or if the rifling stops after it
"...does that mean my barrel is..." Nope. It's a 22" barrel with a ported barrel. The felt recoil and muzzle jump will be less, but the velocity won't be affected enough to worry about. Slap a 2.5x to 8x or 3X to 9X scope on it, load up some 165 grain hunting bulleted ammo, buy it if you must, and go shooting.
O'Heir do you think a 4-14x or a 4.5-16x would be overkill? I definately want to push the limits of the range of the .308, but I am sure I won't do this until I sharpen my skills. The thing is, I only want to ever have one scope for this rifle, so may as well buy one that will last for everything I intend to do with it. I basicaly dont want to decide later that 9x or 10x wasn't enough.
Hi, Norrick. You planning on hunting with it or just punching paper? Either is just dandy. You do have a hunting rifle though. Not that it matters. There's nothing that says you just can't punch paper with a hunting rifle. Shooting with what you have is just as much fun as shooting any rifle.
However, scope magnification is a matter of field of view. The area you can see at a given distance. That is different for hunting and target shooting.
"...want to push the limits of..." Push your limits. The .308 has been used at 1,000 yards with iron sights. High end target rifles, to be sure, but you need to decide what you want to do with this rifle first. Shooting because it's fun is reason enough, but you don't need a high magnification scope for that. Using a 4x-14x or 4.5X-16X scope will limit your options. A 2.5x-8x-32 or 40 or 3X-9X-40 won't.
However, scope magnification is a matter of field of view. The area you can see at a given distance. That is different for hunting and target shooting.
"...want to push the limits of..." Push your limits. The .308 has been used at 1,000 yards with iron sights. High end target rifles, to be sure, but you need to decide what you want to do with this rifle first. Shooting because it's fun is reason enough, but you don't need a high magnification scope for that. Using a 4x-14x or 4.5X-16X scope will limit your options. A 2.5x-8x-32 or 40 or 3X-9X-40 won't.
well I plan on punching paper at 100 and 200 yards, then moving up to hunting, and then moving up to 300, 400, and 500 yards on paper, and then trying to find some game at those distances, basically keep working my way up to farther and farther distances with practice on paper first, and trying to do it all with one scope.
but as far as target competitions go, no i don't think I will worry if my 500 yard shot is a little high, since the whole idea is I'm practicing to hunt, so I just need it in the right region, not a precise point. As long as its adequate for long range game, not long range bullseyes.
but as far as target competitions go, no i don't think I will worry if my 500 yard shot is a little high, since the whole idea is I'm practicing to hunt, so I just need it in the right region, not a precise point. As long as its adequate for long range game, not long range bullseyes.