MR762 & MR556 - HK's 416/417 Civilian Versions

[jg0001]

MR762 & MR556 - HK's 416/417 Civilian Versions

Is anyone else as excited about these two as I am? I refer to HK's MR556 and MR762 rifles which are due in the USA in late 2009. These are the civvy versions of the HK416/417 series.

I have given up trying to find an AR-15 (in NJ). When I first heard of the HK416/417 series, they sounded like a nice step up from the AR15 and solved the issue of me having to do a build-my-own.

(1) Can anyone on here tell me if there's any good reason to buy a regular AR15 over either of these two rifles? Assume for the moment that I have NO intention of doing any major parts swaps; price is also not an issue as my wife is a limiting factor in the # of weapons I can own. My goal here is a well built rifle, in full, from a respected manufacturer.

(2) I like the larger caliber of the MR762 (7.62 x 51 mm NATO), but am unclear if the ammo it uses is an oddball. Ammo is hard enough to find already. Is this a common enough caliber that it could be found (even if it is often out of stock, I just want to know that it is stocked when it is available)?

(3) Lastly, can anyone see any reason why either of these would fail any NJ compliance tests? Obviously, I'd have to go with the 10 round mag as the 20 round mag is exceeds NJ's 15 round limit.

 

[Paochow]

Wow, HK's that actually look like the real military rifle and aren't stuck with just 10rd mags. It's 1989 all over again

 

[ChicagoTex]

Can anyone on here tell me if there's any good reason to buy a regular AR15 over either of these two rifles?

Very similar performance for half (or less) the price. However, you say price is no object so...

Note that the FN SCAR series of rifles are also coming out shortly, and are mechanically very similar to these. The Bushmaster/Magpul ACR/Masada should be coming out sometime soonish as well and will be similar in build but have the ability to quickly change out barrels and other parts to fire different calibers.

The HK, FN, and Bushmaster/Magpul will all be relatively comparably priced (though I wouldn't be surprised if the HK was the most expensive of the three).

It may also interest you to know that H&K treats it's civilian customers like dirt, I've read countless stories highlighting this. In certain parts of the internet, the phrase "H&K Hates You" is practically a cemented rule. Fortunately (or Unfortunately, depending on how you look at it) H&K products are built well enough that folks who need help with their H&Ks are in the minority, screwed though they may be.

I like the larger caliber of the MR762 (7.62 x 51 mm NATO), but am unclear if the ammo it uses is an oddball.

7.62x51mm NATO is to .308 Winchester as 5.56x45mm NATO is to .223 Remington. As .308 is an extremely popular and widely available hunting cartridge, ammo availability should not be a problem. It's definetely NOT an oddball.

Lastly, can anyone see any reason why either of these would fail any NJ compliance tests? Obviously, I'd have to go with the 10 round mag as the 20 round mag is exceeds NJ's 15 round limit.

I know nothing of NJ's compliance tests, but in light of your 10 round magazine restriction, I'd be inclined to favor the 7.62 model as well (if you're stuck with 10, might as well make em hard-hitters).

 

[jg0001]

7.62x51mm NATO is to .308 Winchester as 5.56x45mm NATO is to .223 Remington.

In my own googling of this, I got the same 'general' answer, but then there were other sites showing how the cartridges are shaped differently, pressure differences can exist, etc., concluding that they aren't the same and that they shouldn't be used interchangeably. Is there anything real to worry about here or is it safe to assume a current generation rifle in good condition can mix and match 308 with 7.62x51 and not have any problems?

 

[jg0001]

Pricewise, I've seen guesses range from $2500 up to $4000, with somewhere in the middle being the likely end result (this from discussions of the MR556).

 

[Bwana4]

NJ problem

The first, and hopefully only problem you will encounter in NJ is the collapsible stock.. It must be pinned open in NJ. I just ran into that problem here when buying an AR online. There's a few AR's around in NJ, some at the old HArry's in Bordentown (all Sig's and expensive). I just picked up the Remington R15 and so far, am very pleased with it.

 

[Chui]

Nice, but, LWRC, Inc., LMT, FNHUSA and the Masada are available/will be available at much less prices. Not sure about street prices on the FN SCAR, though. Still, HK makes a very nice product.

 

[jg0001]

Can I get some links to these other competitors? I'm looking for something that competes direct with the AR-15 style, yet has the newer innards setup that is prized in these HKs.

 

[KChen986]

JG, with all due respect,

Google will provide *a lot* of answers to your questions.

Here's the LWRC website: http://www.lwrifles.com/
Gas-piston set up. The advantage to this platform is it's nitrided coating to the internals, and the cold hammer forged barrel. It also has probably 80% parts compatability to ARs. Accuracy is about 1.5MOA with the M6A2 (Free Floated 16" Piston rifle)

Here's the POF website: http://www.pof-usa.com/main.htm

I think all their internals are 100% chromed. So, you have a very slick internal operating surface(--however, chrome has its drawbacks). The rail-to-bore axis is also pretty high. It has a simpler piston system, and accuracy has reputedly been sub MOA (I get conflicting reports, so not 100%).

Both are *very nice* rifles. Hope this helped buddy

 

[azredhawk44]

(1) Can anyone on here tell me if there's any good reason to buy a regular AR15 over either of these two rifles?

The Gawd-Awful peasant conscript sights on the HK's would be a good reason to abstain and get a quality AR pattern rifle for half the price.

That rotary drum on top for a rear sight only allows for large adjustments (probably 100/200/300/400) and makes assumptions about ammo velocity. Quality sights like those on an AR or M1/M14 will allow for 1 minute or 1/2 minute adjustment, and be flexible in use for different types of ammo as long as you do your range homework.

I'd pass and get something designed for a marksman. Just judging by the crap sights on it, they didn't build it with accuracy in mind.

 

[SPUSCG]

I thought 416s were more overrated crap from a company that hates civilians

 

[ChicagoTex]

In my own googling of this, I got the same 'general' answer, but then there were other sites showing how the cartridges are shaped differently, pressure differences can exist, etc., concluding that they aren't the same and that they shouldn't be used interchangeably.

It is perfectly safe to fire .308 Win in guns designed for 7.62 NATO. Whether it is perfectly safe to fire 7.62 NATO in guns designed to fire .308 Win is a subject of debate, but that's not the scenario you'd be dealing with.

 

[jg0001]

You'll have to forgive me for being taken aback a bit. I've seen a surprising amount of hate for H&K, at least on the rifle forums I've tripped across in my research. On the handgun side, I've seen very little but praise.

Let me back up a step to explain where I'm coming from here. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the shear volume of choices in the AR world. That said, finding anything fully built has proven very difficult -- in NEW JERSEY. NJ has stricter rules on AR style guns, so just slapping one together on my own is a no go. That, and I don't think it's a project I really want to take on. Add-on the layer of complexity that is these newer rifle systems that supposedly improve over the failings of the older AR's and I think I've found myself something to shoot for.

What I'm looking for is something like my favorite handgun -- my Sig Sauer P226. It may not be the best gun for everyone, and it may even have its detractors, but it also has a real large following of people that think its one of the best guns for the money. It's well made, accurate, and popular enough that finding accessories for it is easy. That and I didn't have to build it myself from major components.

I really do want to just buy a current-gen, fully built, well regarded brand name rifle for my first (and possibly only for a while) rifle. Perhaps if I get more into it, I'll figure out the googolplex variations available, but right now that is just a huge distraction and I simply want a GOOD RIFLE. **that I can actually find somewhere... hence, higher price will likely make it easier to do so; heck, my local shop has had a P90 sitting on its rack for months now, but god forbid I ask about anything AR related**

 

[ChicagoTex]

What I'm looking for is something like my favorite handgun -- my Sig Sauer P226.

Perhaps a SIG 556 is the right ticket for you? It's very similar to these other designs, a reliable AR platform with gas-piston technology. It's not as widely compatible with AR parts as something from say... LWRC but it runs off the same principle and uses the same magazines.

The only downside to the 556 is not a lot of folks like the feel of them (myself included), but they're great rifles.

 

[overkill556x45]

$3000 for an AR? I'd hold off and get a SIG 556, Masada, or SCAR for that money.

Actually, for $3k, I'd buy my M&P15 all over again and spend the extra $2100 on an optic and lots of ammo.

Sure looks "gee whiz", but I'm not sure if it would be worth $3k-4k. I don't see what it would do that a standard well-built AR15 wouldn't.

 

[ChicagoTex]

I don't see what it would do that a standard well-built AR15 wouldn't.

It would allow him bragging rights based on the misleading film H&K put together where they blow up a Colt and pretend they ran the same test against their H&K416.

I've seen a surprising amount of hate for H&K, at least on the rifle forums I've tripped across in my research. On the handgun side, I've seen very little but praise.

Most H&K handgun buyers don't have to deal with anywhere near the level of contempt H&K long gun buyers do. Availability in the US is much better for H&K handguns and they're not nearly as blatantly overpriced. Nor do US buyers have to suffer "civilianized" versions of H&K original guns (like the SL8-1 or USC) because H&K doesn't feel that American civilians should have guns that are black with real sights...

See, H&K considers their long guns "military" items, and fundamentally believe that you are too stupid to own one. And this is why H&K hates you.

 

[ronl]

With the H&K long guns I have fired (SL-8 HK-91) I have been totally underwhelmed. Other weapons that cost less can do the same job just as well or better. It's not that they're bad weapons, just for the extra money they simply do not offer anything in reliability or accuracy that can justify the cost. I'll stick with my Robinson Armament XCR. Since break-in it has proven very reliable and I can hit a man sized target at 200yds every time. Still, each to his or her own. If it floats your boat and you can afford it, by all means indulge. But if HK support is half as bad as I have read, I wouldn't touch either with a ten foot pole.

 

[azredhawk44]

Perhaps a SIG 556 is the right ticket for you? It's very similar to these other designs, a reliable AR platform with gas-piston technology. It's not as widely compatible with AR parts as something from say... LWRC but it runs off the same principle and uses the same magazines.

I was told the Sig 556 has more in common with a highly accurized AK, than an AR-15. Looking at it closely, I see the AK similarities. Though it does take AR magazines.

Regardless of its pedigree, the Sig 556 is a great rifle to consider that should be a bit easier to locate than an AR right now.

What I'm looking for is something like my favorite handgun -- my Sig Sauer P226. It may not be the best gun for everyone, and it may even have its detractors, but it also has a real large following of people that think its one of the best guns for the money. It's well made, accurate, and popular enough that finding accessories for it is easy. That and I didn't have to build it myself from major components.

I really do want to just buy a current-gen, fully built, well regarded brand name rifle for my first (and possibly only for a while) rifle.

If you want well-regarded with a reputation for reliability and modernity... Consider the M14 platform. Springfield M1A rifles tend to be more conservative in their design and cater to the 1950's lines of these classic rifles... but then again, the AR is also a 1950's design. M14's can get pretty futuristic and advanced in features, though. Smith Enterprises would be a good starting point for a high end customized M14 project rifle. It can be put into an accurized modular stock with rail points for anything you want. You can get a 16" to 22" barrel. It was THE rifle to beat at Camp Perry matches up until accurizing AR's became popular. It comes with classic aperture sights that are a delight to shoot, and can be scoped/lasered/holosighted/whatever. In use in the sandbox now for squad designated marksman roles.

 

[onthejon55]

I like the larger caliber of the MR762 (7.62 x 51 mm NATO), but am unclear if the ammo it uses is an oddball. Ammo is hard enough to find already. Is this a common enough caliber that it could be found (even if it is often out of stock, I just want to know that it is stocked when it is available)?

Actually 7.62x51mm is pretty popular among unicorn hunters and fairy snipers. The best way to get you hands on it is to go down to the local magical forest and summon a wizard who can then conjure sum up for you. Good luck!