Mosin Nagant
- Thread starter XD Gunner
- Start date
http://7.62x54r.net
Great resource site.
Anyone know of any synthetic stocks other than the ATI monte carlo?
Great resource site.
Anyone know of any synthetic stocks other than the ATI monte carlo?
straightpull
New member
MOsin-Nagant
Get Finnish M39 with new bore. Generally more accurate and has a pistol grip stock which some people prefers (as I do). If I was to get only one Mosin type rifle, I'd get this one. Gunsnammo.com, Allans-armory.com, SOG, Empirearms et al., check auction sites too. When I go to gunstores (Big 5, etc) I carry with me a .308 bullet (just bullet, not .311) that I graded with my Finnish Mosins' muzzle and I put it in the muzzle of the mosin in the store I'm looking at to see the approximate size of the bore. The tighter the better. Whatever you get, choose the best bore you can find (new, unissued). Other parts you can change and modify to suit.
Get Finnish M39 with new bore. Generally more accurate and has a pistol grip stock which some people prefers (as I do). If I was to get only one Mosin type rifle, I'd get this one. Gunsnammo.com, Allans-armory.com, SOG, Empirearms et al., check auction sites too. When I go to gunstores (Big 5, etc) I carry with me a .308 bullet (just bullet, not .311) that I graded with my Finnish Mosins' muzzle and I put it in the muzzle of the mosin in the store I'm looking at to see the approximate size of the bore. The tighter the better. Whatever you get, choose the best bore you can find (new, unissued). Other parts you can change and modify to suit.
I have a M38 (no bayonet) and prefer that to the M44 ("side fold" bayonet).
I love the thing. You can't beat the prices for what you get, IMO. I occasionally plink and bear hunt with mine. Makes for a nice conversation piece too!
Classic Arms (http://www.classicarms.us/) usually has M38s and M44s and will sometimes have laminated stocks and/or chromed receivers on some.....very cool!
I love the thing. You can't beat the prices for what you get, IMO. I occasionally plink and bear hunt with mine. Makes for a nice conversation piece too!
Classic Arms (http://www.classicarms.us/) usually has M38s and M44s and will sometimes have laminated stocks and/or chromed receivers on some.....very cool!
straightpull
New member
Mosin
Hedley:
My understanding is that counter-boring is done to improve accuracy in rifles that ddin't shoot well. Whether accuracy improved or not, we can't tell until we shoot the rifle. But what if the crown was not the cause of the rifles poor accuracy in the first place? Or counter-boring not properly done? Still, I don't see them as junk especially if the bore condition is excellent or higher. I have a counterbored Tikka 91 that shoots really well. Definitely not a junk. My issue with counterbored muzzle is that it is not as easy to re-crown as the non-counterbored muzzle should I feel like I need to. And I prefer being able to look at the crown easily. In your M44, if you haven't done so, try different ammos and see which one it likes. You can also slug the bore and get the measurements to match the ammo/bullet you'll use in it. Some say they shoot better with the bayonet extended (sighted-in with bayonet extended). I think the best thing to do is get another one or two for comparison. Don't forget to add 91/30s for longer sight radius.
Hedley:
My understanding is that counter-boring is done to improve accuracy in rifles that ddin't shoot well. Whether accuracy improved or not, we can't tell until we shoot the rifle. But what if the crown was not the cause of the rifles poor accuracy in the first place? Or counter-boring not properly done? Still, I don't see them as junk especially if the bore condition is excellent or higher. I have a counterbored Tikka 91 that shoots really well. Definitely not a junk. My issue with counterbored muzzle is that it is not as easy to re-crown as the non-counterbored muzzle should I feel like I need to. And I prefer being able to look at the crown easily. In your M44, if you haven't done so, try different ammos and see which one it likes. You can also slug the bore and get the measurements to match the ammo/bullet you'll use in it. Some say they shoot better with the bayonet extended (sighted-in with bayonet extended). I think the best thing to do is get another one or two for comparison. Don't forget to add 91/30s for longer sight radius.
Check out surplusrifleforums.com.
Generally, you'll have to decide if you want a carbine or rifle. For the carbines, the M44 is the same as the M38 with an added bayo. M38's are more rare and thus, more desirable.
As for the rifles, hex receivers are more desirable than round receivers. Most people seem to prefer Tula over Izhevsk. Also laminated stocks over hardwood.
Some things that will add to the collectability: "MO" marked, ex-sniper, dragoon era (pre 1930), etc...
Counterboreing was done to restore accuracy in a rifle with adamaged crown. This is pretty common for Mosin carbines.
The pinnacle of the Mosin design is probably the Finnish M39, but that's a whole 'nother story...
Generally, you'll have to decide if you want a carbine or rifle. For the carbines, the M44 is the same as the M38 with an added bayo. M38's are more rare and thus, more desirable.
As for the rifles, hex receivers are more desirable than round receivers. Most people seem to prefer Tula over Izhevsk. Also laminated stocks over hardwood.
Some things that will add to the collectability: "MO" marked, ex-sniper, dragoon era (pre 1930), etc...
Counterboreing was done to restore accuracy in a rifle with adamaged crown. This is pretty common for Mosin carbines.
The pinnacle of the Mosin design is probably the Finnish M39, but that's a whole 'nother story...
It appears I underestimated the THR member's enthusiasm for helping one another out up in post #2 - I'll not make that mistake again.
Check out Surplusrifle.com for Mosins and Finns. Their Maintenance Section for each rifle has great disassembly instructions, with pictures. I have printed out copies for each of my milsurps. Another good information site is http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/
In general, the Finns are better rifles but you will pay a lot more. Russian Mosins built during WWII are often "sloppy" - pre-war Russian guns tend to be better made, (same for post-war Soviet Bloc manufacture). Plan to spend a lot of time and effort removing years of copper fouling and other crud from the barrel. The effort is usually rewarded - not many are actually "shot out" - unless the barrel has rust and/or pitting. The 7.62x54R ammo used back then had corrosive primers and many Ivans weren't big on cleaning their firearms.
Caveat - laminated stocks aren't a good indicator of a post-war rifle. Lots of them are re-stocked older actions/barrels.
Check out Surplusrifle.com for Mosins and Finns. Their Maintenance Section for each rifle has great disassembly instructions, with pictures. I have printed out copies for each of my milsurps. Another good information site is http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/
In general, the Finns are better rifles but you will pay a lot more. Russian Mosins built during WWII are often "sloppy" - pre-war Russian guns tend to be better made, (same for post-war Soviet Bloc manufacture). Plan to spend a lot of time and effort removing years of copper fouling and other crud from the barrel. The effort is usually rewarded - not many are actually "shot out" - unless the barrel has rust and/or pitting. The 7.62x54R ammo used back then had corrosive primers and many Ivans weren't big on cleaning their firearms.
Caveat - laminated stocks aren't a good indicator of a post-war rifle. Lots of them are re-stocked older actions/barrels.
Old Gaffer
New member
XDGunner wrote:
The first thing to look for is your Curio and Relic license - this will get the MN purchased from the internet or other out-of-state site shipped directly to your door without going through an FFL. THe license costs $30 to get, is dead-nutz easy to get if you're not a Bad Guy, and it's good for three years.
The ONLY downside to having a C&RT license is that you can kiss your paycheck goodbye. Don't ask me how I know this...
There's a GREAT forum here http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forums.com/smf/index.php, but do be aware they do NOT tolerate talking about modifying a MN in any way shape or form. They have a WORLD of knowledge, and treat their MNs like the historical records they really are. BTW, don't call them NAGANTS over there, a NAGANT specifically refers to the Russian Revolver, NOT the rifle or carbine. The rifles can be just 91//30, and Carbines are always Mosin Nagants, MNs or M[model number]. Their forum, their rules...
As to places to buy...
http://www.centerfiresystems.com has 91/30's and M44's from $100 (all dollars rounded up)
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/c/c-r-guns/cPath/290?osCsid=cd4a3f14cd04571337e8068ea054cf4d has 91/30s from $75, M38's from $10, M91/30's HEX rcver from $90, and M44's from $80. They also have surplus ammo from $38/440 round case.
http://interordnance.com/ has M44s from $64, 91/30s from $64, and M38's from $75.
I've also seen the various MNs at gunshows for about $110 and up - no C&R license required to purchase there. But you can readily see that you'll save the cost of your license the second time you buy a MN over the internet.
Oh yeah, another advantage to the C&R, a lot of the online stores give you a discount just because you have one. MidwayUSA and Numrichs come immediately to mind. In fact, I got a 25% discount on magazines for my wifes Walther P22 FROM WALTHER just because I ASKED about a C&R discount. I've had my license since December and I've gotten far more than the cost of the license in discounts.
And the SECOND thing to look for when you buy a MN...your next one
For the record, I have a 1945 M44 from Interordance ($64) complete with bayonet and excellent bore, and a 1937 91/30 that I bought from a friend for the whopping sum of $25 (shoots GREAT). The bore on the 91/30 would barely pass light from one end to the other. I soaked it in Break Free, ran a .30 cal bore brush through it several times, followed up with a metric tonne of patches, and it shoots better than the M44.
BTW, I'm a 50+ y.o. out-of shape guy, and I found the recoil sufficient to make my shoulder come unglued after about a dozen rounds; a $12 slip-on recoil pad lets me shoot all I want to 60-80 rounds is not atypical) with no discomfort. Yeah, yeah, I know about the pocket and all that, but I'm not a glutton for punishment, and this works.
All the best,
Rob
The first thing to look for is your Curio and Relic license - this will get the MN purchased from the internet or other out-of-state site shipped directly to your door without going through an FFL. THe license costs $30 to get, is dead-nutz easy to get if you're not a Bad Guy, and it's good for three years.
The ONLY downside to having a C&RT license is that you can kiss your paycheck goodbye. Don't ask me how I know this...
There's a GREAT forum here http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forums.com/smf/index.php, but do be aware they do NOT tolerate talking about modifying a MN in any way shape or form. They have a WORLD of knowledge, and treat their MNs like the historical records they really are. BTW, don't call them NAGANTS over there, a NAGANT specifically refers to the Russian Revolver, NOT the rifle or carbine. The rifles can be just 91//30, and Carbines are always Mosin Nagants, MNs or M[model number]. Their forum, their rules...
As to places to buy...
http://www.centerfiresystems.com has 91/30's and M44's from $100 (all dollars rounded up)
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/c/c-r-guns/cPath/290?osCsid=cd4a3f14cd04571337e8068ea054cf4d has 91/30s from $75, M38's from $10, M91/30's HEX rcver from $90, and M44's from $80. They also have surplus ammo from $38/440 round case.
http://interordnance.com/ has M44s from $64, 91/30s from $64, and M38's from $75.
I've also seen the various MNs at gunshows for about $110 and up - no C&R license required to purchase there. But you can readily see that you'll save the cost of your license the second time you buy a MN over the internet.
Oh yeah, another advantage to the C&R, a lot of the online stores give you a discount just because you have one. MidwayUSA and Numrichs come immediately to mind. In fact, I got a 25% discount on magazines for my wifes Walther P22 FROM WALTHER just because I ASKED about a C&R discount. I've had my license since December and I've gotten far more than the cost of the license in discounts.
And the SECOND thing to look for when you buy a MN...your next one
For the record, I have a 1945 M44 from Interordance ($64) complete with bayonet and excellent bore, and a 1937 91/30 that I bought from a friend for the whopping sum of $25 (shoots GREAT). The bore on the 91/30 would barely pass light from one end to the other. I soaked it in Break Free, ran a .30 cal bore brush through it several times, followed up with a metric tonne of patches, and it shoots better than the M44.
BTW, I'm a 50+ y.o. out-of shape guy, and I found the recoil sufficient to make my shoulder come unglued after about a dozen rounds; a $12 slip-on recoil pad lets me shoot all I want to 60-80 rounds is not atypical) with no discomfort. Yeah, yeah, I know about the pocket and all that, but I'm not a glutton for punishment, and this works.
All the best,
Rob
ksstargazer
New member
There are hundreds of variations in Mosin Nagants. I currently have about 30 different Mosins. There are some extremely rare varieties that I won't bother describing because you are unlikely to see one for sale and if they did show up it would be for thousands of dollars. The most desireable mosins IMHO are the Finnish ones. They are renowned for their workmanship and accuracy. The only commonly sold ones now are the M39s which a number of vendors are selling (Wholesale Guns and Ammo, Allans Armory, and a number of others that I can't recall). These rifles generally sell for over $200 and excellent condition or rare will easily go over $350. I have been extremely lucky at gunshows and have found these for as low as $60 in excellent condition. The most I ever spent for one was $180 (a B-barrel). I have pretty much completed my Finn collection of mosin models (I'm not expecting to find a M27RV or SAT model) and am now looking for other Finn rifles (SVT, Carcano, Arisaka, M96). Finding an M27, M28, M28/30, Tikka or VKT M91 is still possible at shows or on auction boards but these rifles command prices generally over $200. I hold out for the guys at shows who think these are standard mosins and sell them at low prices - I got my M28/30 and M28 for $90 each that way.
As far as the nonFinnish mosins are concerned, the commonly sold ones today are the M38, M44, and M91/30 rifles. The refurbished ones are a great value and it is not hard to find one under $100. Most should be decent shooters but there collector value is low. If these dry up because of an import ban, I am sure their value should rise. Otherwise there are still millions of these rifles out there. Occasionally there will be a great find out there in the nonFinnish mosins. Examples would be carbines like the M91/59, Czech M91/38, 1943 M44, M38 in original stock, M1907, Tula hex M44, etc. Finding these at standard prices means you already have a good investment. As far as the longer rifles are concerned, there is a lot of interest in any M91, pre-1936 hex receivered M91/30s, and in the Dragoons. Finding one of these at standard prices is a great find.
I find most of my great finds at gunshows. I have gotten lucky at Pawn shops, but unfortunately in my area, they are starting to wise up when they see I am interested in something. I have also gotten luck at a few garage sales but I have a few ladies who are on the lookout for me as I hate to go to these sales. It took me a couple of years to learn about the rare variations and I am sure in my early years I passed up a number of great deals. I hear a lot of people bad mouth gunshows and pawn shops, but my persistence at these has really paid off. Most of my rifles I could sell easily at 2-4 times what I paid for them and I only started about 7 years ago and half of my collection was obtained in the last 3 years. Learn and keep your eyes open.
As far as the nonFinnish mosins are concerned, the commonly sold ones today are the M38, M44, and M91/30 rifles. The refurbished ones are a great value and it is not hard to find one under $100. Most should be decent shooters but there collector value is low. If these dry up because of an import ban, I am sure their value should rise. Otherwise there are still millions of these rifles out there. Occasionally there will be a great find out there in the nonFinnish mosins. Examples would be carbines like the M91/59, Czech M91/38, 1943 M44, M38 in original stock, M1907, Tula hex M44, etc. Finding these at standard prices means you already have a good investment. As far as the longer rifles are concerned, there is a lot of interest in any M91, pre-1936 hex receivered M91/30s, and in the Dragoons. Finding one of these at standard prices is a great find.
I find most of my great finds at gunshows. I have gotten lucky at Pawn shops, but unfortunately in my area, they are starting to wise up when they see I am interested in something. I have also gotten luck at a few garage sales but I have a few ladies who are on the lookout for me as I hate to go to these sales. It took me a couple of years to learn about the rare variations and I am sure in my early years I passed up a number of great deals. I hear a lot of people bad mouth gunshows and pawn shops, but my persistence at these has really paid off. Most of my rifles I could sell easily at 2-4 times what I paid for them and I only started about 7 years ago and half of my collection was obtained in the last 3 years. Learn and keep your eyes open.