Mosin Nagant 91/30. Hex or round receiver preferred?

[Shane Tuttle]

I'm ready to start my search for a Mosin Nagant. I already have a Finn M44 made by Sako in 1970. Now I'm ready for an older one. The older in good condition, the better for my taste in collection.

Classic Arms has some in stock with accys. for what seems like a decent price. Do you prefer the round or hex receiver? Is there an advantage of one over the other?

While I'm at it, I'm going to search Empire Arms, AIM, Samco, igsales.com, Southern Ohio Guns, and Century. Any other sites to research for a quality Mosin Nagant? It doesn't have to be a 91/30, just preferred to be a different model than what I currently have and in good firing condition. I don't want the furniture to be beat to death, but some battle scars are desired...

Suggestions?

 

[Darren007]

IMO Hex receivers are more desirable, but either hex or round is fine. There were no advantages of one over the other, just a cost cutting measure in making them round.

It all depends on what you want from what period. And how much your looking to spend.

 

[Mosin44az]

The hex receivers are older, and rarer, than the rounds as far as I can tell.

Jgsales is a good source, I have bought my Mosins there, cheap.

 

[Tamara]

What others have said: From a mechanical standpoint, there's little to choose from between the hex and round receiver guns. From an historic and collector standpoint, the hex receivers are preferred.

 

[Tikirocker]

Yup ... hexy is sexy.

 

[wjkuleck]

Finn M44 made by Sako in 1970

Pardon my confusion here...

SAKO actually never made receivers, neither did Tikkakoska; what they did was rebarrel, restock & rebuild Imperial Russian rifles. Many became standardized rifles of the Finnish Army and the Civil Guard (Sk.Y), e.g., M24, M37, M39, while others were more lightly rebuilt (M91, M91/30). SAKO was originaly the Civil Guard armory.

A SAKO-marked rifle with a 1970 barrel date would most certainly be a Model 39, the standard rifle of the Finnish Army in WWII and beyond. These late rifles were purportedly asembled in small numbers for marksmanship training by officers. M39s were assembled on hex receivers.

Finland never had anything to do with the Soviet M1944, as this carbine was introduced largely after Finland had ceased hostilities with the Soviet Union. The Finns were not great fans of carbines in any case.

The vast majority of Finn rifles were built on hex receivers, as between the stores at the Helsinki arsenal, WWI pickups, and careful trading (captured G98s were swapped for M91s held by Austria, for example) the Finns accumulated vast quantities of "raw materials" for their rebuilds. The round receiver was a manufacturing simplification introduced by the Soviets in the '30's for the M91/30. The Finns did remanufacture a quantity of M91/30 battlefield pickups from the Winter War of 1939-1940, so you can find an SA-marked (Suomen Armeija, Finnish Army) M91/30; it will have a Finn barrel and stock, of course.

If you want an "older" Mosin, you're looking at finding a WWI-era rifle, which would necessarily have a hex receiver. Frankly, I consider the M39 the pinnacle of the Mosin. I currently have two M39s and an Sk.Y (Civil Guard) M28.

For in-depth information on the Mosin, I would strongly recommend The Mosin-Nagant Rifle by Terence Lapin, North Cape Publications.

Careful. Mosins are worse than Garands; once you get one, you may find yourself with an attic-full .

Regards,

Walt

 

[Jimro]

Sako never made a Mosin Nagant reciever? Then what are the Sako crests doing on my 1934 m28/30?

Jimro

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Pardon my mistake kuleck.

I can't believe I had a serious malfunction of my brain. I meant a M39. Thanks for pointing that out. I put that model designation my mistake in another thread and now must dig it up to correct myself...

So, hex it may be.

Jgsales is a good source, I have bought my Mosins there, cheap.

Hard to stop looking. It's like a bad car accident...

 

[MikeG]

Sako never made a Mosin Nagant reciever? Then what are the Sako crests doing on my 1934 m28/30?

The Finns had plenty of old Mosin Nagants when they got independence from Russia, and captured more in WWII. They recycled these into their own rifles. If you look at the underside of the receiver tang, you'll probably find a Russian arsenal mark and earlier date than your rifle's.

 

[theoldgringo]

Sako never made a Mosin Nagant receiver? Then what are the Sako crests doing on my 1934 m28/30?

This is how I understand it. The Finns contracted with the Czar sometime around
1898, or at the turn of the century to purchase receivers from Russia. They subsequently added their markings as they were built, or at least added the date. My Finn was a Sako build in 1943, long after the hex receivers were discontinued.

I have no Idea how the Winter War captures were handled, nor have I ever seen a Finn with a round receiver.

 

[finn2]

wjkuleck and MikeG put it right.
Finland was part of Russia until 1917, when finnish nationalists(first Finnish Army) started to disarm (mosins) russian troops and independence war begun.
This war turned quickly into short but bloody civil war between "whites" and "reds". Reds were supported by russian bolsheviks (sending more Mosins to reds) and when the war ended 1918 to victory of whites, Finland was full of more or less worn-out Mosin Nagants.
This is the reason why rebuildin work of russian rifles started in Finland and why Mosin was natural (and only possible) choice for the weapon of new independent state.

 

[theoldgringo]

finn2,
I stand corrected, although I'm certain I'd read that part about the Finn/Czar arrangement to get those receivers. If that isn't true, why is there no hint of Russian markings (or their removal) on these very pristine looking hexes.
Oops.
A brief look in the gun room tells me that I could be seeing this wrong. It appears I'm looking at markings on the barrel? This would be unlike any other milsurp I own; Mausers, SA'03, K31, Enfield, Garand-------all serialized and crested receivers.
Any insight to the reason this (the barrel marking) was done?

 

[wjkuleck]

Yes, the receivers are scrubbed. The Europeans tend to control barrels more than receives, in contrast to US practice. This emphasis on barrels is reflected in the new US import restrictions on barrels, triggered by our US State Department's desire to embrace the UN's limits on "international arms trafficking."

If you remove the rifle from the stock, you may find a mfr date underneath the receiver heel, behind the rear screw hole. These dates are often made faint or invisible during Finn reworking, but your rifle may still have that date. The date is, of course, the original mfr date of the receiver. Thus, it's possible to have a Finn M39 with a 1970 barrel date that's actually an antique, if the receiver was made prior to 1899 and is so dated.

Note that the "gallows"-looking mark is the Cyrillic letter "Geh," short for "Goda," or year. Also, you may find that the leading digit, "1," his omitted. This was common Russian practice.

Regards,

Walt

 

[theoldgringo]

Thanks for the lesson. I took off the wood and you were right, there was evidence of scrubbing. Actually, the age of the receiver was never an issue and I'm quite pleased just to be able to have a Finn. On the other hand, the history is important and apparently I need to get myself clear on some facts.