Moral: check your settings before you start loading

J

jthuang

New member
Well I dusted off the old Dillon 550B last night to load ammo for the PSA Shootout (http://www.psashootout.com). I produced ~350 rounds of 155 grain FMJTC .40 S&W reloads using 5.7-5.8 grains of Win 231 in about 2 hours. Bullets were Star Manufacturing 155 grain bullets, brass was once-fired Federal American Eagle and primers were Remington small pistol primers.

Max load listed in Lyman's 47th for that bullet is 6.0 grains of Win 231. Lyman's also said the 155 grain bullet at 6.0 grains of Win 231 produces 1,100 fps out of their test barrel. I needed 125 power factor for the match so I figured my 155 grain bullets at 5.7 grains would be moving along quite nicely out of my Glock 23.

I was quite proud of myself until I figured I'd check the OAL using my calipers. Ack, the OAL was 1.145" -- Lee reloading manual says minimum for .40 S&W is 1.100" and max is 1.135". Fortunately for me my reloads seem to fit in my G23's chamber -- I don't know how they will perform under actual conditions, but the moral of the story is to check your settings prior to cranking out a lot of ammo....

Justin
 
J

Johnny Guest

Moderator in Memoriam
GOOD POINT!

jt--

I doubly endorse your comments--and not just as to bullet seating depth.

Ever since I've had a Dillon 550B--just short of ten years, now--I've had a powder measure dedicated to the .45 ACP toolhead. A couple of months after my last move, I set about loading up a few hundred .45s. My standard powder charge at that time was 6.3 of Unique. Just as a matter of standard checkout, after putting in powder and settling it down, I threw ten charges and weighed them. SEVENTY-WHAT? Tried it again. Same result. Somehow, in the packing and moving of my loading gear, the powder measure must have rummed against something enough to work the adjustment screw around, increasing powder setting to over seven grains. Now, that would have been exciting, if I had not checked. I don't believe it would have blown up anything with a standard 230 gr. bullet, but still - - -

A little caution takes very little time, and is very worthwhile.

Best,
Johnny
 
4

45King

New member
Johnny G.,
I've got two 550's, one set up for small primers, one set for large. Each time I add a caliber, I get a powder measure with the dies. That way, each toolhead is set up completely dedicated. No swapping stuff around.

I also have a Square Deal B set up exclusively for loading hardball in .45ACP.

But checking powder charges is 100% MANDATORY before beginning loading, anyway. Gremlins lurk everywhere, especially 'round loading benches of the careless reloader.

7+ grains Unique with a 230 gr. bullet sounds a little scary to me.
I still have my first edition Sierra manual, and it listed 1100fps velocities with the 185 gr. JHC and X.X gr. Unique. Later versions of the manual have dropped the maximum load with that bullet and powder combo by a full grain, IIRC. Seems that Sierra didn't have access to pressure testing equipment when the came up with the first loads, and the brass didn't show any signs of excess pressure. Later, when they finally were able to pressure test their loads, guess what? That max load was waaay OP.

This is why I don't like messing with high-end loads anymore. I have no desire to experience a SCLID* with any of my guns.

*Spontaneous Catastrophic Load Induced Disassembly
 
L

LilJoe

New member
My latest Opps!

While changing the set up of one of the presses the case feeder was giving me problems. Was loading without it to get used to the press. Then added the case feeder and it wasn't working so paying attention to the feeder to get it working all attention went off the ever emptying powder dispenser..... Did a 100 rounds and guess what..... No Idea where I ran out of powder at! Time to get the puller out! Why does it take longer to pull the bullets than it does to make the dang thing?

Joe and Marci
 
A

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
Somewhere back in the Dark Ages, it occurred to me to regularly check DURING the reloading process. I have very rarely ever had anything get out of adjustment, but checking is cheap.

Dunno why, but I have never trusted powder measures. I have never had a problem, but I regularly weigh a random sample on the scale, just for insurance. In the FWIW department, for rifle, I never use a powder measure for max loads.

Never had a SCLID, either...

:), Art
 
I

Intel6

New member
Years ago before getting my own Dillons I was trying out a buddy's 550. I was loading .45 ACP with a 200 gr SWCL and W231. I loaded up about 700 rounds and was tickled pink until I went out to fire them. I had the primers extruding into the FP hole and being sheared off. I pulled a few bullets and found that my friends scale had not been zeroed correctly and I had loaded a few tenths of a grain over max. I put them in a box until I got a S&W 625 and was able to shoot them out of that. They were stiff and it wasn't much fun so I put the rest(500 rds) away in a box. A few years later when I lived in AZ I met up with a guy who had a full auto MAC 10 in .45 ACP. IT needed hot ammo for it to work and I immediatly saw a way to burn up that ammo quickly. After trying in and seeing it was OK I loaded up all his mags and had some fun.

The moral of the story is to get yourself a good set of check weights and make sure your powder scale is doing what it is supposed to like I do every time I start loading.
 
W

WalterGAII

Moderator
If your o.a.l. were shorter than recommended, you might have a problem. As long as your rounds fit in your mag and will cycle through your Glock, you're not going to have any problems.
 
T

TVDean

New member
What if you just re-seated them?

..followed by another crimp?

I suppose the only problem would be how strong the original crimp is, if it recessed into the bullet or not.

Good?
Not good?
 
Y

yankytrash

New member
Ya- if it's a taper crimp it should've been alright to re-seat them.

Now, onto more pressing matters...

Someone mentioned Speer's old load of 7.1 grains of Unique being too much for most pistols? That's what I load for my full-autos for the reason he stated (hot loads produce quicker bolt-action on open bolts).

So I better stop giving these to friends with 1911's? They (my friends) claim that it's more accurate than the 'Wal-Mart ammo'. I hope somebody can collaborate, because, the truth is, I actually hit more like 7.3 grains in these rascals.

BTW - it's always with 230-grain bullets.

I better go lie down now, I'm suddenly feeling a little sick to my stomach....
 
4

45King

New member
I got curious and dug out my old Sierra manual. It's not a first edition, it's a second edition. However, I bought this sometime in 1975, so it's just a tad out of date.
I then compared the .45ACP loads in it to the third edition manual.

The first difference one spots is that the older edition only lists two bullets, the 185 gr. JHC and a 240 gr. "Long Colt Jacketed Hollow Cavity." (Even the "big boys" seem to get it wrong; there's no ".45 Long Colt," just a .45 Colt! Sheesh. At least they corrected it in their newer manual.) The new manual shows 185 gr. JHP, 200 gr. FPJ, 230 gr. FMJ, and 240 gr. JHC.

The new manual lists, for the 185 gr./Unique combo, a starting load of 5.7 gr. at 750fps, and goes to 7.7 gr. MAX LOAD at 1000fps.
The new manual also lists for the 230 gr./Unique combo a starting load of 5.1 gr. at 700fps, and lists a MAX LOAD of 6.8 gr. for 900fps.
The new manual lists the 240 gr./Unique combo with a start load of 5.3 gr., and a MAX LOAD of 6.7 gr. for 900fps.

Now let's compare to the Second Edition manual.

Interestingly enough, the load for the 240 gr. bullet is the same in both manuals. However, there's a BIG difference with the 185 gr. load.

ATTENTION!!! WARNING!!!
THESE LOADS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED, EVEN THOUGH THEY APPEARED AT ONE TIME IN SIERRA'S RELOADING MANUAL!!! SUBSEQUENT PRESSURE TESTING REVEALED THAT THESE LOADS WERE OVER PRESSURE LIMITS FOR THE .45ACP CARTRIDGE!!! DO NOT ATTMEPT TO USE THIS DATA, THEY ARE FOR COMPARISON PURPOSES ONLY!!!

For the 185 gr. JHC, Sierra listed 8.5 gr. Unique as a MAX LOAD with a velocity of 1100fps.

I used to shoot these loads, and they did not show any signs of excessive pressure. Primers flattened no more than did those of factory hardball, no extrusions, flowing, punctures, bulges, bright rings, etc. This just goes to show that in some particular cases, the normal visible signs of an over pressure load do not appear until the load is WAY, WAY over pressure. The problem is that one never knows in which gun/cartridge/case/primer/powder/bullet combo this is going to happen.
Knida scary to think that in a rifle load which has a SAAMI max pressure of, say, 50,000 CUP, you might not see any signs of over pressure until you reach, say, 75,000 CUP or higher.

"Everything looked perfectly normal....right up until the instant that the forth shot caused the gun to explode in his face....."

Don't let it happen to you.....
 
A

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
WESHOOT2, it's to help certain people tell the difference between the 45-caliber round for the ottomattic and the 45-caliber round for that ol' cowboy gun.

Some folks need all the help they can get.

:), Art
 
J

Johnny Guest

Moderator in Memoriam
Old Loading Data

1. NOTE: The following is obsolete data, once published, but EXCEEDS CURRENT MAXIMUM FOR THE .45 ACP CARTRIDGE. Neither writer, TFL Staff, nor anyone else accept responsibility for any mishaps. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

45King---
In the early- to mid-seventies, I used to load 8.0 gr. Unique with the Sierra 185 Jacketed Hollow Cavity and killed a few deer with this combo--Both in an old (Pre-Gold Cup) National Match and a Model 25 S&W 1955 Target resolver. Worked just fine, thank you very much. I noticed, though, that after a couple of firings with this load, the headstamps became a little faded and hard to read.

2. Roger on the ".45 Long Colt" designation. I believe this originated, though, for a pretty good reason. What we now call the .45 Scofield was once issued to the military for use in both the Colt Single Action Army, and in the S&W as well. It was usually labelled as ".45 S&W" but sometimes as ".45 Short (S&W)." The other cartridge was sometimes designated ".45 Long (Colt revolvers only.)" It is easy to see how the latter, especially if spoken rather than written, could be expressed as ".45 Long Colt."

Best regards,
Johnny
 
J

jthuang

New member
Sorry for the late reply, was on vacation in Tampa for a week.

I couldn't re-seat because of my crimp. I was using a Lee factory crimp die with a relatively heavy crimp. At the last steel match I attended, I had one double feed which pushed the bullet way back into the case of one of my reloads. The cartridge was not fired as it was ejected while I was clearing the double feed but that sent a message to me that I needed a heavier crimp than the "just enough crimp to iron out the flare" technique that I had used before.

Thanks for all the stories, I was surprised this thread got so many hits.

Justin
 
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