458winshooter
New member
I have been recently looking into the idea of using moly coating on my bullets due to a friend of a friend that uses them.Is it worth the time and trouble and expense?
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Moly coating bullets
- Thread starter 458winshooter
- Start date
condor bravo
New member
Rather than doing them yourself, lead moly coats can be purchased on line from Bear Creek Supply, tel 208-874-4322, located in California. They have about all usual handgun bullets and a number of rifle bullets, all are non gas checked. They come bulk packed at very reasonable prices. I use most of their rifle bullets including the .458 caliber and all have been very accurate and result in little to no leading. The odd thing is, Bear Creek does not have a web site to order from and that must be done by phone. But first google Bear Creek Supply Bullets and read what others have to say--many excellent recommendations. As I recall, one site does have a bullet listing. I have a local source for the molys so have not had to phone order. As a price example, the 360 grain RNFP .458s that I use extensively have been $45 for 250 from my local source. The .458s are listed as .45-70s and it seems that they like to list the rifle bullets by lever action type designations, like .38-55s for .375s. I highly recommend the Bear Creek bullets. I trust by your moniker that you are a devotee to the .458 also.
Or am I missing the boat here, does moly coating apply to jacketed bullets as well as lead? Maybe that is what you are asking about rather than cast bullets. From previous threads, I seem to recall that moly coating can be applied to jacketed.
Or am I missing the boat here, does moly coating apply to jacketed bullets as well as lead? Maybe that is what you are asking about rather than cast bullets. From previous threads, I seem to recall that moly coating can be applied to jacketed.
Last edited:
condor bravo
New member
Follow up to my above post:
Actually should not have said they could be purchased on line from Bear Creek, but rather that information was available on line (they must be telephone ordered as noted). At local gun shows I would walk past the vendor's booth selling the molys, wondering what the hell those black bullets were all about. Finally wanting some lead bullets for the .45-70 and .458, I gave in and bought a box of the .458s. Was so impressed that I am now using all the rifle calibers they have to offer, about six or so. One they are lacking is the .416s but obtain standard lead gas checks for those from Montana Bullet Works.
Actually should not have said they could be purchased on line from Bear Creek, but rather that information was available on line (they must be telephone ordered as noted). At local gun shows I would walk past the vendor's booth selling the molys, wondering what the hell those black bullets were all about. Finally wanting some lead bullets for the .45-70 and .458, I gave in and bought a box of the .458s. Was so impressed that I am now using all the rifle calibers they have to offer, about six or so. One they are lacking is the .416s but obtain standard lead gas checks for those from Montana Bullet Works.
JeepHammer
Moderator
I shoot 178 Grain Molly bullets exclusively in one of my 308 rifles.
I started with 178 plain copper reloads, just to get crono results,
Then switched to 178 Molly to see what muzzle velocity differences were.
The molly was consistently faster.
What I see with that rifle after about 15,000 rounds is a decided lack of throat erosion. The bore is in fine shape and the rifle still shoots really accurately.
I started with 178 plain copper reloads, just to get crono results,
Then switched to 178 Molly to see what muzzle velocity differences were.
The molly was consistently faster.
What I see with that rifle after about 15,000 rounds is a decided lack of throat erosion. The bore is in fine shape and the rifle still shoots really accurately.
Jeephammer,
Unusual velocity results if the powder charges were unchanged. Moly bullets usually lose about 50 fps with a given powder charge, IME, so you have to up the load to keep up. It's due to reduced friction equaling reduced reaction force for the powder to build pressure against. You can, however, increase the load until you surpass the original velocity and still not get pressure signs. Perhaps that is what you were referring to.
A lot of people did incorrect or poor moly coating with cheap kits originally, and took the reduced fouling moly coated bullets give to mean they didn't have to clean their gun to protect it. Both taken together brought about a lot of bad results and horror stories.
If you stick to the original NECO kit and method, it works well. Many of us who started out that way still do it. Reduced fouling, reduced throat wear, reduced cold-soldering of bullet to cases with age, slightly better bullet self-centering in the bore.
Unusual velocity results if the powder charges were unchanged. Moly bullets usually lose about 50 fps with a given powder charge, IME, so you have to up the load to keep up. It's due to reduced friction equaling reduced reaction force for the powder to build pressure against. You can, however, increase the load until you surpass the original velocity and still not get pressure signs. Perhaps that is what you were referring to.
A lot of people did incorrect or poor moly coating with cheap kits originally, and took the reduced fouling moly coated bullets give to mean they didn't have to clean their gun to protect it. Both taken together brought about a lot of bad results and horror stories.
If you stick to the original NECO kit and method, it works well. Many of us who started out that way still do it. Reduced fouling, reduced throat wear, reduced cold-soldering of bullet to cases with age, slightly better bullet self-centering in the bore.
1) 13 years ago, I started out with the ceramic media and small tumbler and moly powder in the Lyman moly coating kit. Used Lyman moly bore paste to burnish the bore.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/162840/lyman-super-moly-tumble-coat-finishing-kit-110-volt
2) I used Walt Berger's instructions for Kroil and Flitz cleaning.
3) Then I used Copper coated Steel BBs for media and magnetically separated them with the stator from a jet engine starter / generator.
4) Then I put a bullets without media in a plastic cup, taped it up with moly powder inside and tumbled it in a Thumler's tumbler.
5) Darrell Holland's witches Brew seems to be a combination of Kroil, Flitz, and a ball bearing.
That is where I am now.
---------------------
The biggest problems I have had:
1) Ceramic media cuts through plastic vibrating bowl, and Lyman is out of them.
2) Ceramic media is 0.20" diameter and difficult to screw separate from 0.224" diameter bullets.
3) Exposed Lead tips on bullet can contaminate the media, the bowl, and the bullets.
4) Don't get moly on your clothes.
The things that have gone right for me:
1) I seldom buy lead tipped bullets anymore.
2) If the plastic cup gets Lead contamination, I throw it away.
3) With no media, there is nothing to separate.
4) Thousands of bullets and 13 years later I am still on the first small container of Lyman powder Moly.
5) At 2600 fps and less, I do not moly coat.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/162840/lyman-super-moly-tumble-coat-finishing-kit-110-volt
2) I used Walt Berger's instructions for Kroil and Flitz cleaning.
3) Then I used Copper coated Steel BBs for media and magnetically separated them with the stator from a jet engine starter / generator.
4) Then I put a bullets without media in a plastic cup, taped it up with moly powder inside and tumbled it in a Thumler's tumbler.
5) Darrell Holland's witches Brew seems to be a combination of Kroil, Flitz, and a ball bearing.
That is where I am now.
---------------------
The biggest problems I have had:
1) Ceramic media cuts through plastic vibrating bowl, and Lyman is out of them.
2) Ceramic media is 0.20" diameter and difficult to screw separate from 0.224" diameter bullets.
3) Exposed Lead tips on bullet can contaminate the media, the bowl, and the bullets.
4) Don't get moly on your clothes.
The things that have gone right for me:
1) I seldom buy lead tipped bullets anymore.
2) If the plastic cup gets Lead contamination, I throw it away.
3) With no media, there is nothing to separate.
4) Thousands of bullets and 13 years later I am still on the first small container of Lyman powder Moly.
5) At 2600 fps and less, I do not moly coat.
458winshooter
New member
Molys
I was thinking of giving it a try I just started trying to powdercoat this week and Midsouth Shooters Supply has a moly tumbler kit for less than $48.I cast my own so just looking for a better way to lube.I have seen Bear Creek on line already and didn't see any way to order except to call.I was more interested in the process of applying it to them if it is any faster or less complicated than powdercoat or alox.My wife says my 458's with red powdercoat look like her lipstick.
I was thinking of giving it a try I just started trying to powdercoat this week and Midsouth Shooters Supply has a moly tumbler kit for less than $48.I cast my own so just looking for a better way to lube.I have seen Bear Creek on line already and didn't see any way to order except to call.I was more interested in the process of applying it to them if it is any faster or less complicated than powdercoat or alox.My wife says my 458's with red powdercoat look like her lipstick.
JeepHammer
Moderator
Jeephammer,
Unusual velocity results if the powder charges were unchanged. Moly bullets usually lose about 50 fps with a given powder charge, IME, so you have to up the load to keep up. It's due to reduced friction equaling reduced reaction force for the powder to build pressure against. You can, however, increase the load until you surpass the original velocity and still not get pressure signs. Perhaps that is what you were referring to.
Pretty much on track,
I didn't see the 50 FPS you describe, I gained about 20 FPS average.
Haven't checked the velocity differentials since I got the load worked out.
178 Harnady Moly, right out of the box.
I am 'Overloading' slightly, hovering at about 2,900 FPS at the muzzle currently. No signs of overpressure or serious erosion at the throat.
The only other note, it's a cryo treated barrel, after chambering.
Some people think the cryo treatment might have something to do with it, I just don't know.
A local guy thinks the cryo treatment kept the throat from deforming during break in.
Since I didn't gauge it during break in, and check it once in a while for erosion and that's it...
Every bit of research I did said to expect a muzzle velocity drop, but I just didn't see it.
Right about where I'm at now for velocity I stared seeing overpressure signs with plain match kings and the brass I like to use. No signs with the moly coat, so I'm pretty sure it's the moly that's making the difference when you push them that fast.
They just ARE NOT cheap!
I though HBN was all the rage now??
http://www.precision-ceramics.com/p...wders/hexagonal-boron-nitride-bullet-coating/
http://www.precision-ceramics.com/p...wders/hexagonal-boron-nitride-bullet-coating/
Nothing could be simpler or easier. I have a cheap Harbor Freight rotary rock tumbler. A Walmart plastic applesauce jar fits perfectly. It has a wide mouth, the ends are round, but there is a "grip" section molded in the middle so it agitates well.
Grab 125 or 150 .223 bullets, depending on the weight. Degrease them; I use Simple Green and a teakettle of boiling water. Rinse well in tap water.
Put them in the plastic jar, cover with water, add 1/2 tsp moly powder, (less on subsequent runs) and tumble for 90 minutes. Don't put in anything other than bullets, water, and moly dust.
Drain and save the juice. I use an empty 1 pound powder jug. Rinse the bullets, sieve, and other equipment. The black slurry is messy so a utility sink is nice, but the "wet method" is WAY cleaner than using the "dry method" because you can rinse the excess down the drain rather than breathe it into your lungs. Plus the only piece of equipment you contaminate is a free applesauce bottle and an empty powder jug.
Dump the rinsed bullets into a metal cake pan lined with paper towels and shake back and forth to dry them. Change the wet paper towels for dry ones and hit the bullets with a heat gun for a minute as you shake them some more. This polished the bullets and drives tiny dots of moisture from the hollow tip.
At this point, they're ready to load. They are shiny, smooth, and perfect. The coating will not rub off and the bullets look at least as good as factory coated bullets.
Grab 125 or 150 .223 bullets, depending on the weight. Degrease them; I use Simple Green and a teakettle of boiling water. Rinse well in tap water.
Put them in the plastic jar, cover with water, add 1/2 tsp moly powder, (less on subsequent runs) and tumble for 90 minutes. Don't put in anything other than bullets, water, and moly dust.
Drain and save the juice. I use an empty 1 pound powder jug. Rinse the bullets, sieve, and other equipment. The black slurry is messy so a utility sink is nice, but the "wet method" is WAY cleaner than using the "dry method" because you can rinse the excess down the drain rather than breathe it into your lungs. Plus the only piece of equipment you contaminate is a free applesauce bottle and an empty powder jug.
Dump the rinsed bullets into a metal cake pan lined with paper towels and shake back and forth to dry them. Change the wet paper towels for dry ones and hit the bullets with a heat gun for a minute as you shake them some more. This polished the bullets and drives tiny dots of moisture from the hollow tip.
At this point, they're ready to load. They are shiny, smooth, and perfect. The coating will not rub off and the bullets look at least as good as factory coated bullets.
JeepHammer
Moderator
Mozella, I may have to try that.
I just found out Hornady no longer makes my favorite moly bullets...
I bought up a bunch when I found them discounted, this might be the reason why they were discounted, they were discontinued...
I just found out Hornady no longer makes my favorite moly bullets...
I bought up a bunch when I found them discounted, this might be the reason why they were discounted, they were discontinued...
JeepHammer said:Every bit of research I did said to expect a muzzle velocity drop, but I just didn't see it.
Right about where I'm at now for velocity I stared seeing overpressure signs with plain match kings and the brass I like to use. No signs with the moly coat, so I'm pretty sure it's the moly that's making the difference when you push them that fast.
Yes. And that higher pressure should be producing higher velocity. So I'm still perplexed by your results. I've always measured the decrease occurring. However, both can happen. A bore that was loose can tighten a bit with moly build-up and that can increase velocity.
You may find this interesting.