Molon Labe -- History Lesson

ds1973

New member
My Ph.D. advisor is a Greek FROM Greece and gave me this brief history on the battle and some info on why the Spartans lost:

Pronounced: molo'n lave'

This is what Leonidas told the Persians at Thermopylae when they asked him and his troops to hand their weapons to them and surrender. When the Persian king Xerxes arrived there with an immense army (2.5 million troops as Herodotus writes), he found the narrow pass at Thermopylae (between a mountain and the sea) to be defended by 300 Spartans under Leonidas and some other Greeks (total about 7,100 troops). First he sent some spies to see what the Greeks are doing and to their amazement they reported back that they were very relaxed, doing their daily physical training and even bathing and combing their hair! He subsequently sent his guards to ask the Spartans to give up their weapons and surrender. At that time Leonidas told them to tell Xerxes "Molon Labe" (come and get them yourself). In the battle that followed the Persians were being defeated badly and they managed to win at the end when a local peasant called Efialtis (the word "efialtis" is being used now in the Greek language for the word "nightmare") defected and led some Persians through a narrow and treacherous mountain pass behind the Spartans. Leonidas and his troops fought bravely but were all killed. The defiance of Leonidas is now legendary and "Molon Labe" essentially means "No Fear" in modern greek.

The battle took place in the late summer of 480bc.
 

Hard Ball

New member
The Spartan and other Greek heavy infantry (hopolites) were much better armred. armored, and trained than the Persian infantry. In straight forward hand to hand fighting in "the narrow gates" they repeatedky defeated the Persian attackers and inflicted very heavy casualties. After they were betrayed and surrounded on all sides they were much more vulnerable to Persian arrow fire and the Spartans and the other Greeks who stayed and fought with them were overwhelmed and killed.
 
Actually Herodotus reports only that the Spartans wore their hair long and it was customary for them to groom it before battle. The Spartans felt that long hair made them look more ferocious (I think the hoplite equipment was sufficient towards that means). Purportedly they also wore red capes which helped to conceal any blood which splattered on it.
 
IIRC the Spartans inflicted something like 20,000 casualties upon the Persians, which is why they withdrew even after defeating Leonidas - if it took only 300 Spartans to inflict such tremendous losses what would a Greek army fielded in strength do?

As a side note does anyone recall the movie about this battle, the name, etc? Saw it once about 30 years ago on TV, have been looking for it on tape for some time.

RR
 

DC

Moderator Emeritus
Ever notice...?

Thermopyle......The Alamo

Remember what committed and determined folks can do, no matter how few they are.
 

Hard Ball

New member
The 300 Spartans did a hell of a job and were the heart and soul of the defense, but let's not forget the 6.800 other Greeks who fought there.
 

paratrooper

New member
They wore red capes to hide any blood which may have spattered on them ? I must remember to wear brown pants in combat .
 

hdm25

New member
"They wore red capes to hide any blood which may have spattered on them ? I must remember to wear brown pants in combat ."


Just browsing through some results from a search and came on that TOTALLY unprepared...ROTFLMAO!!
 

King

New member
Our archers are so numerous," said the Persian envoy, "that the flight of their arrows darkens the sun."

"So much the better," replied Dienekes, a Spartan warrior, "for we shall fight them in the shade."

Says it all for me.........
 

John Lawson

New member
The Spartans fortified the middle gate at the Thermopylae pass, since only seven men could stand abreast and cavalry attacks were severaly restricted. (Erosion has changed the topography and it bears little resemblance to what it was like in 480 BCE)
In 1953, the government of Greece erected a monument to the battle at Thermopylae that reads, literally: "Stranger, go and tell the Spartans that we lie here obedient to their word (laws)."
(Remember what Sun Tsu said about "picking your ground"?)
After all of the Spartans had been killed, the Persian shock troops "The Immortals" awarded each fallen Spartan their highest military honor, a red cord tied around their right wrist, signifying valor in battle and all wounds to the front. This is the only time in recorded military history that an enemy has been awarded their opponents' highest military order.
Historians tell us that the Battles of Thermopylae and Agincourt gave us Western Civilization.
Leonidas was asked before the final battle by his soothesayer if he wanted him to read the entrail of a lamb. Leonidas replied: "Today we carve our own omens."
My mother told me these stories of King Leonidas and the 300 Spartans, and of Queen Gorgo's love for her husband, Leonidas many times when I was a child.
 

mister rogers

New member
Interesting post, Mr. Lawson, mentioning the battles that saved western civilization. Modern western civilization was founded on the greek culture as later influenced by christianity, particularily the protestant reformation - out of which together grew the concepts of the individual, liberty, and then individual liberty.

Therefore I would see some of the battles that saved western culture as:

Thermopylae - saved greek culture

The Romans then spread it all over the ancient world and later within their empire christianity spread over the empire. Probably a lot of battles but no single one stands out, except the battle where Constantine defeated invading barbarians and then converted to christianity

Charles Martel defeated the moors of spain and prevented their attempted invasion of france and the rest of europe, again can't remember the battles name.

Later, the Venicians led a number of allies that defeated the Turks and prevented their invasion of europe, it was mostly a naval battle.


Those four are probably the ones that most clearly saved western civilization.
 

Hkmp5sd

New member
The History Channel had a special on the Spartans a few weeks ago. The historians commented that the Spartans actually thought they would WIN. Unfortunately, the defeders of the Alamo KNEW they would not.
 

Mal H

Staff
It was at the Battle of Milvian Bridge where Const. I converted to Christianity.

Charles "The Hammer" Martel defeated the Moors at the Battle of Tours.

The Venetians and lots of other Europeans gathered together by Pius V were led by an Austrian - Don John.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
It was at the Battle of Milvian Bridge where Const. I converted to Christianity.

...and it was not a cross he saw in the sky (the cross wasn't a Christian symbol 'til much later) but the "Chi Rho" monogram, which was the Christian symbol of the times.

Trivia! Getcher trivia here! :D
 

Mal H

Staff
"...and it was not a cross he saw in the sky..."

Right. I always thought it was a little too weird that he saw the letters in the sky at just the right time. Just think how different Europe and perhaps the world would be if he had seen a wittle bunny rabbit or a puffy pillow instead. :)

(I think he was most likely predisposed to Christianity and was looking for a sign.)
 

agricola

New member
you should add the Catalaunian Fields to the "battles that saved western civilization" list..... maybe Daras as well
 
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