"Modern"/Usable Top-Break Revolvers

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Lee6113

New member
Hello all!

My current fascination has been with historic top-break revolvers. I love the look of them, the way they operate, and the history behind them. I was wondering what was reasonably available on the market these days. Schofields? Webley? I know Smith and Wesson had several models...

So which ones could you buy these days with the intention of using and firing a lot rather than just stick in a safe for the collection? Ideally it would be a modern cartridge like a .45lc or .45acp, or maybe .38sp/357 mag... However I do intend to begin reloading this year, and I'd probably not get a revolver like this till later on, but again, I'm fascinated by these types of revolvers!

So, what's out there?


Lee
 
G

gyvel

New member
Navy Arms/Uberti/Beretta/Smith & Wesson all have sold top break revolvers recently in .38 Special, .45 Colt, and maybe .44 as well. Webley & Scott produced revolvers until 1982.

The Italian S&W copies are the most common and are serviceable and popular with the Cowboy action guys. My experience, however, is that the steel is fairly soft and the guns tend to shoot loose fairly quickly, which is disappointing as they are works of art as far as appearance is concerned.

Beretta acquired Uberti, and has sold some repros as Berettas, but they are essentially identical to Ubertis except for the name.
 
D

Driftwood Johnson

New member
Howdy

From 2000 to 2002 Smith and Wesson dusted off the Schofield design and produced it again. This time it was made with modern steel. Sorry, I don't know how many were made, but not a whole lot. Remaining true to the original design, this model was only chambered for the original 45 Schofield round, not 45 Colt as some of the Italian reproductions are. These come up for sale on the gun auction boards quite often, but they are sought after and are not cheap.

The Schofields made by Army San Marco (ASM) were terrible and shroud be avoided.

I know several shooters who have the Uberti made Schofield reproductions. As long as you don't hot rod them, they hold up fine. They are chambered for 45 Colt, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38 Special. The design is not strong enough for a cartridge such as 357 Magnum.

I am posting this photo of an original S&W Schofield to show what they looked like.

schofield02_zps140a93d1.jpg






Uberti also makes a reproduction of the S&W Russian revolver, with it's characteristic spur on the trigger guard and big hump on the grip. Also chambered for 45 Colt, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38 Special.

Again, a photo of an original to show the very different shape. I can tell you, if you do not keep your hand below that big hump (S&W calls it a knuckle) it will hurt when the gun recoils.

Russian02.jpg




Beretta, who owns Uberti, sold a revolver they called the Laramie for a while. It was actually a replica of the Smith and Wesson New Model Number Three. I do not know if the Laramie is still in production, but I see them on the gun auction sites fairly often. I believe the Laramie was chambered for 45 Colt and 38 Special, not sure of any other chamberings, but again, no magnums.

A photo of an original New Model Number Three, that the Laramie was patterned after. Notice the knuckle has been reduced quite a bit from the Russian Model. A very comfortable revolver to shoot.

new%20model%20number%20three%2001_zpsnhtam3mu.jpg


P.S. Because of some design changes, none of these replicas shoot Black Powder very well. If you care about shooting Black Powder. They tend to bind up very quickly. However they are fine for modern Smokeless powders. Suggest you keep your loads light, stay far away from the Max loads.

By the way, the originals handled Black Powder beautifully because they were designed for it.
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
Stay away from ASM (Armi San Marcos). A friend gave me one as a gift. Two cylinders of standard .45 Colt, and I gave it back to him. Looked beautiful, worked like crap. Misfired 3 times, and unlocked twice (once each cylinder).

Found out later that the ASMs have a very poor reputation. And apparently, they are not alone. Some of the Italian top breaks are very good guns. Several apparently are not.

Good Luck
 
S

samsmix

New member
My personal favorites are the Webleys, but I doubt we will be seeing any new build pistols. However, there are quite a few out there there are many out there in .455 Webley that have been modified (by machining a few thousandths off the back of the cylinder) to fire .45 ACP in moon clips, or .45 Auto Rim. They have a reputation for going KA-BOOM occasionally as they were not meant to take the pressure of these hotter rounds.

Here is where you come in. The collector value of these guns is much diminished, and they command a more reasonable price. You, being that you intend to handload, can back the pressure down to a safer level, thus ensuring yourself years of shooting pleasure.

I don't handload, but it seems like a trimmed down Auto Rim case would make a good facsimile of the .455 Webley case, allowing it's full length extraction, while supplying the thicker rim needed in the cut down cylinder.
 
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Bill DeShivs

New member
Look at the H&R "Defender" series. They were good guns, albeit in .38 S&W.

North American Arms has announced a (second) top break mini revolver in .22 magnum.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
We go through this about once a year. A top break revolver in a high power cartridge is not practical. In order to function, there must be some play in the topstrap latch. And because there is, every time the gun is fired, there will be tiny amount of compression of the metal which will eventually cause looseness. I know everyone claims that if the maker uses hardened unobtanium that problem can be overcome, but so far that has not happened.

A second problem is that the automatic extraction/ejection systems won't fully extract fired cases of .38 Special/.357 length. Manual ejection systems will work, but reloads are then no faster than in swing cylinders.

Top breaks have advantages over swing cylinder guns, but the drawbacks will keep them to old timers or novelties.

Jim
 
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SaxonPig

New member
I have a 1941 dated Enfield Mk II that I got for $100 from a gun show dealer because the action was frozen. As I suspected it was just congealed grease that flushed right out. I load for the 38 S&W so shooting is no problem and the gun is a hoot.

I looked at a nickel 45 Schofield and it was beautiful.

Don't condemn a model because one example was messed up. Be like an alien dismissing all humans because Rosie O'Donnell was the first person he happened to meet.
 
M

mehavey

New member
JAMES:
- Do you consider the 45 Colt/Schofield high power at original 14ksi loadings?
- And while the 45Colt cases will extract cleaning held upside down, the Schofield
...cases are thrown clear no matter what.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
Neither the .45 Colt nor the .45 Schofield (nor the .44 cartridges for which the original S&W's were chambered) can be considered high power. But folks who insist they must have a "modern" top break almost always want it in .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull or similar cartridges that are high power.

If the goal is a modern top break in .455 Webley, or .45 Schofield, then my points are moot, but I would have to ask why anyone would design and manufacture a new design gun of any kind for low power and obsolete cartridges. (And yes, the .45 Colt is obsolete except for shooting games.)

Jim
 
I

Idaho 45 Vaquero

New member
Good news. :)

Anderson Wheeler has introduced an exceptional brand new Webley revolver in .357 magnum. Stunning quality, brand new and made in England. Anderson Wheeler made the double rifle for the movie James Bond-Skyfall.

The bad news. Starting at 6,500 euros. :(
 
G

gyvel

New member
There's always the Nirbheek which was released in 2014, based on the Webley design...
Click to expand...

As usual, misinformation articles abound. First, the gun is based on the Enfield revolver, not the Webley. Second, it has been produced at IOF for a number of years now in a slightly larger version. Whoever wrote the article didn't do their homework.

Unfortunately, it is not available for export to the U.S.
 
D

Driftwood Johnson

New member
Didn't S&W deviate by using a frame mounted firing pin?
Click to expand...

When I said 'true to the original design', I meant that the chambering was the same as the original Schofield, chambered for the 45 Schofield round. The modern replicas made in Italy have slightly longer cylinders, so they can chamber longer rounds such as the 45 Colt and 44-40. The lengthened cylinder in a frame the same size as the original meant that the gas bushing at the front of the cylinder became shorter, and that is the reason the modern replicas do not do well with Black Powder, with the cylinder binding up after not too many rounds. I really do not recall if the firing pin was hammer mounted or frame mounted on the Schofields produced by S&W in 2000.

I have no dog in the fight about 'high powered' cartridges being suitable for a Top Break. The OP stated he was looking for a Top Break that would fire '.45lc or .45acp, or maybe .38sp/357 mag'. I already stated that modern replica Top Breaks are chambered for '45 Colt, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38 Special. The design is not strong enough for a cartridge such as 357 Magnum.' I did not see 44 Magnum or 454 Casull mentioned in the original question.

Regarding complete ejection, the originals most certainly positively ejected the short 44 Russian and 45 Schofield empties completely. I just ejected some. I have no idea if the modern reproductions will completely eject the longer cases, but a flick of the wrist as you open the gun goes a long way in helping a Top Break eject the empties.
 
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