Modern equivilant of Mauser c96? Mechanism wise

[Husqvarna]

Modern equivilant of Mauser c96?

Specifically the mag infront of the trigger? I have seen it on some .22 pistols that seem made for accuracy/comp pistols, so is there not a advantage? why only .22?

and it just plain looks cool,

likewise the luger, modern reproductions of both exist I pressume but more just the mechanisms but in other guns?

is a slide better than what the luger has with the thing popping up?

and again the look damn cool, the ruger .22 uses the same or is it just estethic similarity?

 

[carguychris]

I don't know much about the C96 but I can address some questions about the Luger.

The "thing popping up" is generally referred to as a toggle or toggle link. Faithful postwar reproductions of the Luger have been marketed by Mauser, Aimco, and Stoeger. The latter company also marketed .22LR lookalikes in the 1960s, and Erma also used to sell similar .22LR, .32ACP, and .380ACP lookalikes; however, these pistols used pure blowback operation, rather than authentic locked-breech operation in which the barreled receiver moves rearward for a short distance before the toggle strikes a ramp and unlocks.

Locked-breech toggle operation in pistols is a good idea but has proven to be an evolutionary dead end. Its primary theoretical advantage is that the barrel and receiver reciprocate purely in a straight line, unlike Browning-style operation, in which the breech must tilt downwards to clear the slide after unlocking. The Luger's straight-line movement theoretically enhances accuracy. The problem, however, is that the toggle linkage incorporates two arms and three pivots. These parts must be machined and fitted almost perfectly for proper operation, they're intolerant of dirt and improper lubrication, and they're difficult to repair in the field. Browning-style tilting-barrel operation, in contrast, is almost stone-simple; the primary moving part is essentially a spring-loaded piston, with no pivots or links.

An oft-repeated saying about the Luger is that it's a exemplary product of the late 19th-century era when skilled labor was cheap. At the time, a company could get away with forging a bagful of parts, handing them to a worker, and waiting for several days for him/her to painstakingly fit them all together. Even before 1930, it was obvious that this production strategy wasn't tenable, which is why the Germans instituted a replacement program as soon as they could get away with it- a program which resulted in the Walther P38.

The Ruger Mk-series .22's are based on the Japanese Nambu pistol; their connection to the Luger is a common misconception. Like the Ruger, the Nambu is a blowback design with has a cylindrical bolt that is cocked by pulling back on the rear-mounted "ears". Also like the Ruger, the Nambu is inherently very accurate; its poor reputation as a military pistol was due to the feeble cartridge it fired and a flawed and breakage-prone firing pin design.

 

[Husqvarna]

very informative thanks

 

[44 AMP]

There is no modern equivalent of the Mauser C96, mechanism wise. The closest thing there is are a few match pistols(olympic class) that are visually sinilar in having their magazine infront of the trigger. And they are all .22s.

First off, the Mauser mechanism is made up of fairly complex interlocking parts. There is only a single pin used (other than the firing pin) and a single screw, which holds the grips on. Even with the most modern manufacturing methods, the cost to make the C96 mechanism today would be prohibitively expensive. People simply won't pay what it would cost to make. And, since it offers no clear advantage over other systems, the cost and complexity simply won't let it compete in today's market.

Second, since 1994, handguns that take their magazine anywhere other than through the grip frame have been classed as "assault weapons". Now, the Federal law that did that (among many other things) sunset, and went away in 2004, HOWEVER, several states passed their own state laws at the same time, (doing the same things on a state level), and those laws did NOT have a sunset provision, and are still in place.

Even the Olympic class target guns are "assualt weapons" under those laws, and are not legal to buy in several places. California is one of those places, and a few years ago, when a young gal was trying to practice for the Olympics, her state "advised" her she had to go somewhere else to shoot her "assault weapon".

The Luger mechanism has been described, fairly well, I'll just add that like the Mauser, a modern gun usuing the same system just cannot compete in the marketplace. When someone makes a gun using the toggle system, what they build IS a Luger, a complete repro, not just the toggle system. Those guns do sell, in small amounts, to people who want a Luger.

I do not agree that the Ruger .22 pistol was based on the Japanese Nambu. While there are some visual similarities (because to a point, form follows function), I have never seen anything stating Ruger used the Nambu as his design basis. I suppose it is possible, but I think it unlikely. The grip frame of the Ruger Mk series pistol is exactly the same shape as the "pistol grip" of a hand drill that Ruger was making, before they got into the firearms market.

I know another

design with a cylindrical bolt that is cocked by pulling back on the rear-mounted "ears".

That is the Auto Mag pistol, a locked breech design that has nothing else in common with the Nambu (or the Ruger) other than a cylindrical bolt and cocking "ears".

To a degree, form follows function. Parts that do similar things often look similar. Sometimes ideas are "borrowed", but other times, completely separate lines of engineering result in similar appearance.

 

[carguychris]

I do not agree that the Ruger .22 pistol was based on the Japanese Nambu... I have never seen anything stating Ruger used the Nambu as his design basis.

Let me help you with that. Sidebar in the upper RH corner of Page 234.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9x...d=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ruger nambu&f=false

There are also published claims that Bill Ruger built at least 2 exact Baby Nambu clones prior to designing the Pistol / Standard Model / MkI. The exact extent to which Ruger was inspired by the Nambu is a matter of scholarly debate, but I'm not making this all up.

That said, this is ultimately a sidetrack, so let's leave it there.