Model 41, some help please

[redlightrich]

Hello all, I just picked up a SW Model 41 today, brand new, and so far, I am a bit disappointed. I had it bought in to my LGS, and just got it home.

The rear sight assembly is severely shifted to the left. Not the windage adjustment, the actual sight.

Also, on the slide assembly, towards the rear, directly in front of the vertical cuts, there is a pin that keeps falling out if I rack the slide. This pin runs left to right, and I can clearly see they did a poor job peening it over.

What is the purpose of this pin, and does anyone have a good method of me fixing it without damaging the finish on this new gun?



Thank you for any help you can offer

Rich

 

[redlightrich]

Looking at a schematic, the part that keeps working loose it number 69, which is the pin that holds the "bolt" into the slide, so yes, it needs to stay put.

So my question of a good way to peen it in remains.

Yes, I am aware, I can send it into S/W for repair, but I prefer not.....

Thank you

 

[Slamfire]

I am going to be of no help. But I think for all the money you paid for a new M41, it ought to arrive in perfect condition without any parts falling off or sights way out of alignment.

The rear sight probably has a set screw going into the barrel. Find that, loosen it, and drift the sight over.

 

[DaleA]

I think for all the money you paid for a new M41, it ought to arrive in perfect condition without any parts falling off or sights way out of alignment.

This.

Please return it to S&W.

When I get around to buying a Model 41 I want S&W trained (by folk like you) to have their quality control up to snuff so I DO get a 'perfect' gun.

I've got a lot of respect for the S&W Model 41. Years and years ago I shot in a pistol league and they were the thing to have. One shooter let me try his once in a while and it gave me a consistent bump of 8 or 9 points (ten shots, 100 points total).

Also I've heard (this is only rumor) that many guns returned to S&W get a complete checkup, they not only fix what you said is wrong but they check for every little thing and the gun comes back with everything the way it should be.

Good luck and please keep us informed how this goes.

 

[g.willikers]

If you don't want to go to the trouble of sending your pistol back to the manufacturer, both problems are easily addressed.
Slamfire has said how to fix the sight, hardly worth the trouble to send back, for sure.
The pin could probably be replaced with a new split roll/spring pin from your local full service hardware store.
Like these:
https://www.fastenal.com/products/f...8 Pins"|~ ~|categoryl3:"600120 Spring Pins"|~

 

[redlightrich]

Thank you for your replies. I also posted this in the SW site, and received similar information.

This gun was not cheap. I bought it because of it's storied past, and terrific trigger, and I perceived tremendous quality, due to people who still use their 40 plus year old 41. Kind of an heirloom quality gun.

I am generally opposed to returning a gun. I have never done it in the past, but I believe I will in this case.

The owners manual ( which is the absolute most lawyered up manual I have ever seen) states the warranty is 1 year to the original owner. The selling dealer said it is lifetime? I know my SW AR15 is lifetime warranty. Did SW change their warranty since the printing of this manual ( it was printed in 2014)? Is it possible the model 41 is excluded from the same warranty that would apply to a 600 dollar rifle?

Anyway, thanks as always for your thoughts. Unfortunately I agree that the best course of action is to call SW and ask for a call tag and get the process moving.

Kind regards

Rich

 

[redlightrich]

Not fired

PS, I have not yet fired a single round thru this gun, which is why I am so strongly considering returning it........

 

[g.willikers]

Check out the additional info I just added to my previous post.
It might change your mind about sending it back.
Way too much trouble in my opinion for what's needed.
Unless you are suspicious of the gun in general.
Always a possibility when problems start cropping up in abundance.

 

[Powermwt]

If it is #69, the Bolt Pin, that is not a roll pin but has a shoulder. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/364350.htm

I would send the gun back.

Just a question, does the pistol look like it has been test fired?

 

[dgludwig]

Shocking to me that what was the Cadillac of .22 target pistols not that long ago can be a Vega if you're unlucky, thanks, apparently, to poor quality control. I don't know what's been happening to the firearm industry during the last couple of decades or so (and not just Smith & Wesson), but I remember a time when returning a Colt or Smith & Wesson handgun to the factory to address a quality control issue was a rare event indeed.

Fortunately for the op, Smith & Wesson has acquired a good record for customer service over time. Like some others in this thread, I'd advise sending the pistol back to the factory for assessment/repair, especially since it has been unfired.

 

[FITASC]

Those guns from 40 years ago still run well because they were made right by craftsmen - not the same as today - sorry, but that is what it is.

I'd send it back to S&W' call them and they'll issue a free return label.

 

[44 AMP]

Absoluely call S&W and describe your problems. IF the gun is new, it NEEDS to go back. No new gun should have any part "fall out", period. As to the sight? again if NEW it should be centered.

Any chance your dealer sold you a used gun, claiming it was new? Or even thinking it was new, when it wasn't?? Those kind of things do happen, though they shouldn't. S&W will know if the gun has been used when they check it (and they can tell who it was first sold to).

DO NOT FIRE THE GUN!!!

Do not fix it yourself or have it fixed. Tempting, I know, especially with small issues and the hassle of sending a pistol back for repair, but don't do it if the gun is still under warranty.

S&W needs to fix it.

 

[redlightrich]

G.Willikers, thank you, that was what I was considering for a quick repair, but I field striped this gun to give it a once over, and I had to squeeze with alarming pressure to get the trigger guard back in place. I tried this 3 times in disbelief. I am certain I was doing it right.
I am starting to lose faith in this gun. Yes indeed, these are all easy fixes, however, if I do my own repairs, I sort of let SW off the hook, for this and possibly for future issues.

I did call the selling dealer, asking if this gun was used? He was adamant that the gun was factory new. I asked why it seemed less than "fresh". He said he had 3 others there and they were all consistent with mine. Now that I think about it, having 4 model 41's at the same time would be very unusual indeed.

I have it in writing, him assuring me that it is new. I am not sure about other states, but in NJ, you are not allowed to sell a used gun as a new gun. It screws up chain of custody, besides being very immoral and illegal.

I called SW today, and they offered to send me a pin to fix it. I explained that I haven't even fired it, and they said, " I will send you 2 pins". I was late for my next meeting, so I said fine, to get off the phone. Monday, I will call and call until someone understands what I need, although G.Willikers roll pin idea is easy and tempting!!

I am disappointed so far, but if I hit everything I aim at, and it cycles 100 percent, then it will have been worth it!!

 

[bn12gg]

My 41's as well as a M46 out of the 1960's run flawlessly. For what these late model 41's fetch these days a new buyer might want to go with a clean pre owned pistol built quite awhile ago.

.02. David.

 

[redlightrich]

Hello David, I am starting to wish I did exactly what you said, however, in NJ, I rarely see one come up for sale. I know, working with the right dealer on GB would be a route to go, but unfortunately, I have already attached a permit to this pistol, so I am committed. I will eventually make it right.

The more I think of it, G. Willikers makes sense. I don't like returning anything that I can do myself. My thought is, if they can't perform flawless work the first time, why would they the next time?

I realize a return probably goes to someone more talented that the assembly line workers, but, if their line workers are not great, the talented repair folks will be inundated with repairs, and will not pay the attention you would hope.

Again, thank you for the insight, and David, hold that old gun, it probably is a gem!!

Rich

 

[bn12gg]

Red... I purchased my 5" M46 thru my favorite LGS while the 2 M41's were GunBroker buys. Both 41's were "Buy Nows" off GB -- you just have to be ready. Remember -- "No guts, No glory" . Good luck.

.02. David.

Red... A clean 1960 build 41 for $850/900 is a good buy. Fair $$ imo.

 

[rt11002003]

I have a couple of the "newer" style M41s; the ones with the built in rail. Had one for four years, the other about a year. They perform flawlessly. As far as I can determine workmanship is outstanding. Probably not as good as the German and Swiss guns I own, but that's a personal opinion.

As to warranties, read Ruger's. My Mk iii's all have loose sights and one has fallen off. I'm unable to reinstall it because the dovetail is damaged. Guess that's the reason it fell off. Ruger provides excellent CS, which is good because their QC is horrible. I would send the Mk iii's to CS, but they have Volquartsen parts which Ruger will take out.

Back to the thread: If you haven't done anything to the pistol, I recommend you send it to CS.

 

[dgludwig]

and I had to squeeze with alarming pressure to get the trigger guard back in place. I tried this 3 times in disbelief. I am certain I was doing it right.

I'm not sure when the pressure to reinstall the trigger guard becomes too hard but I do know it's better to need more pressure rather than less pressure-within reason. That said, if it's really difficult to reinstall the trigger guard, it suggests that something isn't right and that the factory needs to examine your pistol.
Send it back.

 

[redlightrich]

Better report,

Hello all, against some of your advice, I decided to take a variation on
GWillikers suggestion. The sight issue was resolved easy peasy.

The slide pin, not so much. What I decided to try was to spread the "cup" in the pin, as this appears how it is done at the factory, they just didn't do it right.

I put my brass jaw attachment on my vice, and put some grease in the "cup" in the pin and placed a small ball bearing on it ( like a bb but smaller) and with the grease holding the ball bearing in place, I CAREFULLY placed the slide in the brass jaws of the vice, and situated it so that the pressure was on the left side of the pin, which protrudes a bit, and the bearing in the "cup" on the right side, and carefully tightened the vice, which allowed the ball to spread the cup. I didn't spread it too much, as this pin may need to come out in the future (service firing pin, or extractor) but enough to hold it in place.

Then this afternoon, I took my new pistol to the range, and ran 125 rounds of CCI SV LRN ammo thru it, and it ran flawlessly. It cycled 100 percent, and I found it to be very accurate. I was able to hit the 3" steels at 60 yards the first time out with it.

I then tried it at a paper target, and grouped very well. I was almost as happy to see it cycle 100% as I was to experience the accuracy, as I have read about Fail to Chamber and Fail to Eject several times. This appears to be luck of the draw. Mine ran well.

Later, I bought it home and did a full detail clean, ( initially I cleaned it enough to use it, paying special attention to the bore).

When I went to place the barrel on this evening, the trigger guard required effort, but it was not the 2 hand ordeal of yesterday, so I guess something settled in. Overall, what started as a big disappointment, turned out to be a pleasant surprise.

I wanted to post a follow up in case someone else experiences this.

I just cringe at the idea of returning a gun, especially when I know I have the ability to make it right myself. In the end, I am glad I did the repair.

By the way, my Ruger Mk III rear sight also fell off, and I asked Ruger for a new sight, which they gladly obliged, and I fixed that myself as well. I am not sure why I am so opposed to use a warranty, but I guess it is that I trust myself more than some disinterested employee. Today it worked out!!

Thank you all who offered advice or insight or direction.

I do greatly appreciate it

Kind regards

Rich

 

[James K]

For the average person, I still recommend either returning the gun to the factory or having it repaired by a gunsmith. IMHO, the factory route is better, for the simple reason that it lets the factory know about any production line problems; if you fix the gun yourself or have a local gunsmith do it, the factory has no reason to take any corrective action at the production level because it never knows about the problems.

Jim