Militarization of Civilian Authority (II)

[jeffelkins]

"The problem comes when we combine militarized SWAT teams with no-knock raids ("dynamic entry" - which should only be used in hostage situations, AFAIC) and judges who are too loose with issuing no-knock warrants to fight the sacred Holy War on Drugs (TM). Combine all this with misused/abused asset forfeiture laws and you've got a recipe for gross overreaching of powers granted to the government, conflict of interest by law enforcement/judicial officials, not to mention citizen mistrust of law enforcement (LA, Waco, etc)."

Bravo!!!

How in the world does our current situation differ from the 'Standing Armies' fear of our Founding Fathers?

Ordinary on-the-street LEOs violate our God-given rights every day. Try carrying a .38 in NYC or smoking a joint in the town square.

For that matter, carrying a select-fire Uzi or plunging a spike of heroin into a vein.

What business is it of YOURS?

 

[BigPig]

Posted by sensop:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BigPig,
If I had a nickel everytime I heard an opinion that started with, "The fact of the matter is ..." I think I could probably buy a round of Shiner for the entire registry of this bulletin board. Now what is irritating is when someone is sooooooo passionate about their position that they have to maybe just overdo things a bit. Such as after making a point, in spades, closing with a "... get your facts straight." Really, what's the point of that? It's argumentive, discourteous and you really lose points for it.[/quote]

I disagree with you when you say that it was argumentative, discourteous, and pointless for me to say: "Get your facts straight." If one is going to post information on such a touchy subject, one should know the basic facts first. Granted, it wasnt the biggest mistake made, but it was wrong information. Maybe I'm making too big a deal about it...

Anyhow, I think that I am just very frustrated over all this, as I should be. Also, I think that blame can also be put on the judges that sign these BS warrants, and of course, the "war" on drugs. That is the root of this whole mess.

 

[mrat]

Bigpig,
If I remember correctly one of the BG's in the robbery in LA did shoot himself. I have the video so I'll watch it again and report back to "get the facts straight". Also at the end of the shooting the LAPD car that pulled up with AR15 and shot the last BG were SWAT.

Not that it is my business, why do you keep an AR15 in your trunk? I would be afraid that it would get stolen. I live in Cali also so I know once your AR is gone, you are not getting another one unless you move to another state that allows them.

[This message has been edited by mrat (edited March 02, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by mrat (edited March 02, 2000).]

 

[DAVE MOON]

OK guys (BigPig) here's the facts:
1. 9:00 am, a PATROL CAR (not SWAT) observes a robbery in progress at the Bank of America. A firefight quickly ensues. SWAT is across the city, training.
2. BG's spray the surrounding area with automatic rifle fire, mostly .308. Numerous patrol cops move in. SWAT is called.
3. BG #1 walks from the scene of the bank. BG #2 drives off in their car. BG #1 is shooting a modified, full auto, H&K 91 which is hit in the ejection port by a policeman's pistol round, causing a jam. BG goes to a pistol, walks a bit, constantly being hit in his body armor (shoulders to toes). He then shoots himself in the head, and as he falls, takes a police pistol shot in the neck, also fatal, but redundant.
4. BG #2 commandeers a pick-up as a 3 man SWAT unit pulls up. One SWAT member is still in his running shorts, with just his SWAT vest thrown over a T-shirt. This BG has TWO vests on, with a plate (rifle proof) sandwiched in between. He is "10 ringed" by SWAT's .223 carbines, no effect, NO PENETRATION. Furious close range firefight erupts. BG shot from under cars, starting at his feet, breaking down legs, BG gives up. Subsequently bleeds to death.

That's the facts in a nutshell. I've been debriefed by the SWAT Officers involved. I've seen the videos many times (enhanced).

Regarding equipment:
BG #1: Full body armor, from the shoulders to the arms to the tops of his feet. All "homemade." Could be penetrated by a .223 or .308. Would (did) stop all pistol and shotgun rounds.

BG #2: Standard "bullet proof" vest, a steel rifle plate over that, and a "Tac Vest" over that. Capable of stopping all .223 and .308 AP rounds. Arms, legs and head vulnerable.

SWAT cops: Standard Tac Vests. Stops pistol and shotgun rounds only. Vulnerable to rifle fire. No arm or leg protection.

BigPig, you may have confused my "condescending power trip" attitude, as you stated in your E-mail to me, with your ignorance of the true facts. I do agree with you, though, that cops are paid to go into harms way for you. I do, WE do. And, in my humble opinion, my job is no more important than yours, or the guy who stocks the shelves, or the gal who stitches up our kids when they fall off a bike, or the guy who picks up our garbage. It's just different, that's all.

Anyway, I just got in from a 12 hour (uneventful, thankfully) shift and I'm going to bed.

Dave Moon

 

[BigPig]

I should have stated that I have my AR-15 when I am going to and from the range. Kalifornia doesnt allow its subjects to keep a gun in the car except for certain times. Going to and from the range, gun show, shop, simth, things like that. Great state huh?

For all,

As I have said, I am frustrated. If anyone here cant see that I wish no harm to any police officer, then they are blind. I dont have the attutide that the police are out to get me. I dont not care when one is shot by some POS gang member. And I dont not think that they are brave, mostly the regular patrol ones.

Regarding the SWAT unit that got within literally 5 feet of that 2nd a**hole at the shootout, Ill tell you all right now that they had some balls. Those are the things that earn my respect. When a few guys get practically within arms length with a sucidal psycho armed with a FA AK, I have have only the deepest admiration for them. Although some will find that hard to believe given my recent posts here.

And BTW, I would just like to reitterate that I am no cop hater. I dont kiss their butts, but I dont like it when their murder is advocated (read: Ice T and his song 'cop killer'). I think the root of the problem is the 'drug' war, and the polititions that want to militarize civilian police.