Medical Marijuana card & CCW

[P5 Guy]

https://thefirearmfirm.com/medical-marijuana-card-and-concealed-weapons-license-cwfl/

Now in Florida the same elected official oversees the concealed carry and medical marijuana licensing.
I see conflicts on the horizon.

 

[FITASC]

Why is there a conflict? All licenses/permits from CWFL to barber licenses run through the AG Commissioner's department.

 

[HiBC]

Use you search function to get back to the extensive discussion we have already had on this topic....more than once.

I know,the response will be "But that's not fair" Too bad.

Your form 4473 has the question "Are you an UNLAWFUL user of or addicted to marijuana or any other controlled substance"
Before you get all excited about pot becoming legal in your state,

The firearm law is FEDERAL. The form 4473 is FEDERAL Marijuana,medical or otherwise,is still a Class 1 Controlled substance under FEDERAL law,and any marijuana use is unlawful under FEDERAL law.

So,on your form 4473,if you are a marijuana user,be careful how you answer.

Lying is a felony. Using marijuana,medpot card or not,makes you a "Prohibited person" Buying,selling,posessing,a firearm or ammunition is another felony.

And about all your medpot card does is document you as a a Federally unlawful user. In the Great Computer in the Sky.


This should get you to one of the previous threads:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539207&highlight=medical+marijuana

 

[TailGator]

^^^^ Quite correct, and better than Commissioner Fried's apparent understanding of the law. In the linked interview, she says that alcoholism and prescription drug abuse do not disqualify a buyer from a gun purchase, but that is incorrect. Also according to the article, anyone disqualified from firearm purchase is disqualified from a concealed weapons permit. The overall impression that I have of Commissioner Fried is that she doesn't know much of what she is talking about, and what she is talking about is her job. Sheesh.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Now in Florida the same elected official oversees the concealed carry and medical marijuana licensing.
I see conflicts on the horizon.

The conflict is not on the horizon, the conflict has been with us since the first time a state decided to "legalize" the use of marijuana (an illegal substance) for medical purposes. The only real "conflict" I see here is that people who legally should not own or carry firearms now, in Florida, are facing the prospect of the agency that issues their carry permits knowing that they're using an illegal substance and should not be in possession of firearms.

The bigger problem I see out of this is that the Commissioner does not understand the law. Under her leadership, her agency apparently will allow and abet people in violating federal firearms laws ... in other words, participate in committing a federal felony offense.

From the article:

Florida Statute section 790.06(2)(f), appears to contradict her statement that alcoholics and people addicted to prescription drugs are allowed to purchase and possess guns, while section 790.06(2) seems to clearly indicate that the Department of Agriculture is not supposed to issue a CWFL to a person prohibited by Federal Law from possessing or purchasing a firearm.

Although it now appears likely that the Department of Agriculture, under Commissioner Fried will issue CWFLs to those with a medical marijuana card and will not seek to revoke those already issued, anyone who has a medical marijuana card and/or prescription for medical marijuana should be aware that the federal government and the ATF are not bound by Commissioner Fried’s interpretation of the law and can and likely will still prosecute those who possess firearms. Under the law it does not seem that you can have both a medical marijuana card and a CWFL.

Choices.

 

[HiBC]

Its generally more correct to suspect ignorance and incompetence rather than conspiracy...
Whether this is contrived or not
Selective enforcement places those lulled by it into a very vulnerable position.

Marijuana is a very popular product.The belief that the state "legalization" of marijuana makes it OK to have both pot and firearms places a lot of folks at risk of prosecution and permanent loss of 2nd Amendment Rights.

Even if you are offered a "No jail time,just sign here" deal.

 

[jonnyc]

Had a woman once produce her medical marijuana card as ID for a handgun purchase. Didn't work out so well for her.

 

[FITASC]

There is nothing against someone having a MMC and a FL CWFL; the issue becomes when that MMC holder wants to buy/own/possess a gun. In FL, the CWFL also allows for the concealed carry of other weapons

 

[zxcvbob]

I think y'all are conflating 4473 form to *purchase* a gun from a FFL with possessing a gun that you already own. Then the license to carry is a third thing altogether.

I don't see any conflict with having a carry permit, which only strongly implies that you have an handgun (because it would be stupid to get one otherwise), and a marijuana permit. I can see where it might raise eyebrows with the feds if they find out about it, but why would they find out? Both permits are issued by the state.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

There is nothing against someone having a MMC and a FL CWFL; the issue becomes when that MMC holder wants to buy/own/possess a gun. In FL, the CWFL also allows for the concealed carry of other weapons

Good point.

Even though I have a Florida permit, I always forget it's for handguns and other weapons. My home state permit and all the other non-resident permits I have are only for handguns.

I think y'all are conflating 4473 form to *purchase* a gun from a FFL with possessing a gun that you already own.

No, I don't think so. If you are a user of unlawful substances, you are prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms. That includes any firearms you already owned before you became a user of unlawful substances. It's not just about filling out a 4473 to purchase a firearm.

 

[TailGator]

There is nothing against someone having a MMC and a FL CWFL; the issue becomes when that MMC holder wants to buy/own/possess a gun. In FL, the CWFL also allows for the concealed carry of other weapons

I'm not sure that is right. The article asserts, and quotes Florida law in doing so, that a concealed weapons permit is not to be issued to someone unqualified to make gun purchases. At least that is what I understand it to say.

"The Statute begins, “The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall issue a license if the applicant:”

(f) Does not chronically and habitually use alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired. It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired if the applicant has been convicted under s. 790.151 or has been deemed a habitual offender under s. 856.011(3), or has had two or more convictions under s.316.193 or similar laws of any other state, within the 3-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;

 Is not prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm by any other provision of Florida or federal law." (emphasis added)

 

[osbornk]

I think y'all are conflating 4473 form to *purchase* a gun from a FFL with possessing a gun that you already own. Then the license to carry is a third thing altogether.

I don't see any conflict with having a carry permit, which only strongly implies that you have an handgun (because it would be stupid to get one otherwise), and a marijuana permit. I can see where it might raise eyebrows with the feds if they find out about it, but why would they find out? Both permits are issued by the state.

I know several people who have concealed carry permits that have never owned a gun, no longer have a gun or have a gun but have no intention of ever carrying one. I asked my daughter why she got her permit (she had never shot a gun until she took the class) and she said she got it to exercise her constitutional right. I have a 72 year old classmate that got her permit because she might need it someday if she ever gets a gun. My 83 year old friend has had his permit for years and he doesn't even know what kind of handgun he has and he has had it for decades.

Our Sheriff has a concealed class about every month and he has waived the fees except those that goes to the state. The cost for a concealed carry permit for us is $15 for a 5 year permit and you can get it without seeing or touching a firearm.

 

[Mainah]

The facts are simple. Medical marijuana helps many manage pain and symptoms of various diseases without the risk of opioid addiction. Legally prescribed drugs have helped create a national opioid crisis. As more states legalize medical and recreational pot more people become criminals due to current gun laws. If they chose Oxycontin instead they'd be on compliance.

I don't see how that's anything to feel smug about. Especially in an environment of changing state drug laws, stagnant federal laws, and incompetent NRA leadership.

Florida may want to explore this situation before connecting the dots between gun owners and medical marijuana: https://www.theguardian.com/science...mic-prescription-painkillers-heroin-addiction

 

[Frank Ettin]

The current revision of the 4473 helps clarify things. See question 11e on the 4473 (emphasis in original):

...Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or
decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.....

I think y'all are conflating 4473 form to *purchase* a gun from a FFL with possessing a gun that you already own. Then the license to carry is a third thing altogether.....

I don't see how you could possibly believe that after all our past discussions on the subject.

Federal law prohibits a marijuana user, even if legal under state law, from having a gun in his possession. "Possession" includes having the gun in his hands. So if you use marijuana you can't, under federal law, own a gun, rent a gun, borrow a gun, shoot a gun, fondle a gun at a gun store or gun show, etc.

...I see conflicts on the horizon.

The Oregon Supreme Court dealt with that under Oregon law some years ago.

The Oregon Supreme Court, in Willis v. Winters, 253 P.3d 1058 (Or., 2011), ruled that Michael Winters, as Sheriff of Jackson County, was required under Oregon law to issue a concealed handgun license to Cynthia Willis even though she was a medical marijuana user. The Court concluded that Ms. Willis had satisfied the statutory requirements under Oregon's "shall issue" conceal handgun license (CHL) law, notwithstanding that the use of marijuana violated federal law. So the Oregon sheriff was obliged under the applicable Oregon statute to issue a CHL to Ms. Willis.

The case did not substantively address the federal law issue. In fact, the Oregon Supreme Court specifically noted (at pp. 1065 - 1066, emphasis added):

...Neither is the statute [the Oregon CHL law] an obstacle to Congress's purposes in the sense that it interferes with the ability of the federal government to enforce the policy that the Gun Control Act expresses. A marijuana user's possession of a CHL may exempt him or her from prosecution or arrest under ORS 166.250(1)(a) and (b), but it does not in any way preclude full enforcement of the federal law by federal law enforcement officials...

And thus the Oregon Supreme Court specifically acknowledged that while Ms. Willis would not be arrested by Oregon LEOs or prosecuted under Oregon law for carrying a concealed handgun, she could still be arrested by federal LEOs, prosecuted under federal law and sent to federal prison for being a prohibited person in possession of a gun in violation of 18 USC 922(g)(3).

 

[FITASC]

Good point.

Even though I have a Florida permit, I always forget it's for handguns and other weapons. My home state permit and all the other non-resident permits I have are only for handguns.

Which is why it is called a CWFL, for Concealed Weapon and Firearm License.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Which is why it is called a CWFL, for Concealed Weapon and Firearm License.

I wish other states would follow suit. It doesn't make sense to me that my home state (and numerous other states) will grant me a license (or permit, depending on what the state chooses to call it) to carry a weapon with which I can, theoretically, kill a person from a distance of 50 yards or more ... but I'm not allowed to carry an electronic "stun gun" weapon, which is a contact weapon, or a knife with a blade longer than 2-1/2 inches.

 

[USNRet93]

As more states legalize medical and recreational pot more people become criminals due to current gun laws.

It's not the 'current gun laws', it's the silly Federal law that puts marijuana on par with heroin..MJ 'should' be like booze, a far more dangerous drug..

 

[HiBC]

It's not the 'current gun laws', it's the silly Federal law that puts marijuana on par with heroin..MJ 'should' be like booze, a far more dangerous drug.

The world of "should be" only exists inside the mind.
The merits of pot vs alcohol etc,etc is IMO,off topic. But I agree pot is not heroin.

It may be true the Feds could change the pot classification as a remedy to the conflict. (Unintended consequences unknown)

But no,I think the problem AT THIS POINT is with folks not understanding the law,and then being responsible for the choices they make.


Whether I like t or not,whether I agree or not, I can choose my 2A and guns,OR I can use pot. If I do both,I may get away with it,but assume the risk of felony consequences.

If the law needs to change,OK. There s a way to do that,

 

[Aguila Blanca]

As more states legalize medical and recreational pot more people become criminals due to current gun laws.

It's not the 'current gun laws', it's the silly Federal law that puts marijuana on par with heroin..MJ 'should' be like booze, a far more dangerous drug..

The federal law that makes marijuana a controlled (and disqualifying) substance is a current law, and it affects firearms possession.

Discussion of whether or not marijuana should be deregulated is off-topic for The Firing Line.