Last week an old friend and his wife visited for a few days. Like myself, he is a retired Army officer and Vietnam war veteran. His wife owns a small business and he is now fully retired with grown children and a stake in the future with grandchildren, just like myself. But his hatred for our President is so rabid, and irrational, that he is a supporter of Barack Obama. I cannot even determine exactly why he hates George Bush (and Dick Cheney) so vehemently, but it blinds him to the danger of an Obama presidency. He admits that Obama has no qualifications for the position, is pretty much an empty suit, but will vote for him anyway! He sees McCain as a continuation of Bush and thus a focus of his hatred as well. This man is not the first person that I have met who seems to feel this way, and I fear if otherwise intelligent people like my old friend can support Obama he will likely be elected. The traditional Democrat voting blocks such as union members, government workers, African Americans and the various groups of anti-American fanatics will of course vote for Obama. If those who understand that the tax and spend, Eurocentric, anti-military, anti-capitalist views of Obama will likely destroy this country as we know it, and yet will still support him out of hatred for George Bush, then maybe there truly is no hope for this country. I truly fear for the kind of nation we will have when my grandchildren are grown and trying to have a decent life. I see our gun rights gone, our economy in shambles, our foreign policy dominated by trying to please the cowardly Europeans and practicing appeasement to the radical Muslims, and our culture looking more like Mexico than like the USA that I have known, I cannot help but be depressed.
Maybe there is no hope
- Thread starter vito
- Start date
I understand ...
the cause and reason of your overwhelming despondent outlook on the future of America. Yes, we are changing and evolving as a country into something we've never been before. Politically, America has generally swung to the other side after blame is placed upon the ones in office and perceived things go wrong. Kind of like a seesaw only balanced for a very small moment in time. Here's one man's opinion on how to handle your depression.
You love this country.
You love your family.
You especially love your grandchildren, which are your legacy and hope for the future.
Start small one day at a time, one person at a time ... do one good and productive act to accomplish a better America. Your goal is to help Shepard your grandchildren to a better life for them. Don't get overwhelmed by the big picture. Aim small, shoot small and you will hit your target. Depression is a tough fight and actions are easy to talk about. Fight it. Stare it in the eye. Grab by the throat and stomp on it.
Work to make a better America for your grandchildren. Work is required, always has been always will be. One man working with a passion and a firm goal can influence others and impassion them to work for a better America. If you do this your grandchildren will grow and take up your work when you and I are gone and carry on the legacy of building a better America.
You have Dragons to slay. Pick up your shield, pick up your sword, gird your loins for on this day of days you have great work to do.
Go slay the dragons.
For your grandchildren.
For America.
the cause and reason of your overwhelming despondent outlook on the future of America. Yes, we are changing and evolving as a country into something we've never been before. Politically, America has generally swung to the other side after blame is placed upon the ones in office and perceived things go wrong. Kind of like a seesaw only balanced for a very small moment in time. Here's one man's opinion on how to handle your depression.
You love this country.
You love your family.
You especially love your grandchildren, which are your legacy and hope for the future.
Start small one day at a time, one person at a time ... do one good and productive act to accomplish a better America. Your goal is to help Shepard your grandchildren to a better life for them. Don't get overwhelmed by the big picture. Aim small, shoot small and you will hit your target. Depression is a tough fight and actions are easy to talk about. Fight it. Stare it in the eye. Grab by the throat and stomp on it.
Work to make a better America for your grandchildren. Work is required, always has been always will be. One man working with a passion and a firm goal can influence others and impassion them to work for a better America. If you do this your grandchildren will grow and take up your work when you and I are gone and carry on the legacy of building a better America.
You have Dragons to slay. Pick up your shield, pick up your sword, gird your loins for on this day of days you have great work to do.
Go slay the dragons.
For your grandchildren.
For America.
Unregistered
Moderator
I feel there are many people who are going to do what your friend is doing. Bush has been an abysmal failure. He has involved us in never ending war, nation building, and extreme spending on government programs and welfare. He has destroyed many of our civil liberties, and signed laws that are in conflict with our founding principles. Bush, not Obama, is responsible for creating people like your friend.
Obama will be a terrible president, and I certainly will be voting for McCain, but I can completely understand how disenfranchised your friend has become. When one party fails as miserably as the Republicans have, there is typically a rebound period that will take decades to recover.
But there is hope. Obama is probably not the anti-Christ, and will probably not be able to accomplish much of his agenda. We have survived worse things than an Obama presidency. Its just the price we are going to pay for the follies of the last 8 years. At least we have Bush almost behind us now.
Obama will be a terrible president, and I certainly will be voting for McCain, but I can completely understand how disenfranchised your friend has become. When one party fails as miserably as the Republicans have, there is typically a rebound period that will take decades to recover.
But there is hope. Obama is probably not the anti-Christ, and will probably not be able to accomplish much of his agenda. We have survived worse things than an Obama presidency. Its just the price we are going to pay for the follies of the last 8 years. At least we have Bush almost behind us now.
Unregistered
Moderator
Hopefully you are correct. Things could get back to normal in as little as 2 years, if Congress is replaced.
As a senior citizen and Vietnam vet I understand how your friend feels, America has been on a down hill slide since Vietnam and the past 8 years have seen in my opinion some of the worse decisions for this county but an Obama administration will only worsen the situation.
I think America is at a turning point, with excessive outsourcing, loss of manufacturing, importing of poor under educated labor, nation building, bleeding money to oil rich countries in my opinion we don't have much time to fix the problem. It may not be the end of America but certainly the idea of the American way of life is dimming. I've voted Republican most of my life however neither party appears to represent me they do appear to work for wealthy corporations and themselves. Truth is we can't afford another poor administration but surly looks like that is our future once again.
I do not have the answers but we cannot afford to continue business as is while you may doing fine the country as a whole is in trouble and in our new global economy 8 years could be a disaster. As Obama suggested learn to speak Spanish but I would also add Chinese as they appear to be buying the USA.
I think America is at a turning point, with excessive outsourcing, loss of manufacturing, importing of poor under educated labor, nation building, bleeding money to oil rich countries in my opinion we don't have much time to fix the problem. It may not be the end of America but certainly the idea of the American way of life is dimming. I've voted Republican most of my life however neither party appears to represent me they do appear to work for wealthy corporations and themselves. Truth is we can't afford another poor administration but surly looks like that is our future once again.
I do not have the answers but we cannot afford to continue business as is while you may doing fine the country as a whole is in trouble and in our new global economy 8 years could be a disaster. As Obama suggested learn to speak Spanish but I would also add Chinese as they appear to be buying the USA.
Forwardassist
New member
Your old friend is not alone. I know several conservatives that have had it with Bush and the Republicans who say they will vote for Obama in Nov. A few have decided not to vote at all to let the chips fall were they may. They see no other choice. For them McCain is another Bush. Maybe a Bush lite, but still a person that will continue Bush's destructive policies. Your friend is just one of the many who will either vote for Obama or just stay home on election day. On top of that Bob Barr is polling well in several key battleground states. Which will further complicate matters for McCain. This is the year of political realignment in America. Forr better or worse, but it will be done.
Bush has hit us hardest, directly, in our pocket books. The combination of drunk congress spending, allowing gas prices to go so high so his buddies are rolling in money, taxes, and now this new 50 billion in African aid, not to mention the bailout for mortgages, all threaten the fairly stable society we had.
Funny, but many don't remember how Clinton put the lock on my S&W, railroaded the gun industry, and, signed the assault weapons ban.
Odd, that in a gun forum, anyone could excuse him for those acts...
But, the day I vote for someone with no history, except Muslim, and, is only in office thanks to Jack Ryan wanting to be Bill Clinton with his incredible ex-wife Jeri, well, I'll be dead first...
Funny, but many don't remember how Clinton put the lock on my S&W, railroaded the gun industry, and, signed the assault weapons ban.
Odd, that in a gun forum, anyone could excuse him for those acts...
But, the day I vote for someone with no history, except Muslim, and, is only in office thanks to Jack Ryan wanting to be Bill Clinton with his incredible ex-wife Jeri, well, I'll be dead first...
jakeswensonmt
New member
As far as I can see this describes about half of Obama's supporters. The other half is comprised of white-guilt PC liberals, plus blacks who will vote black because he's black.
Obama's appeal in the Democratic primaries was that he was the UnClinton,
and he was able to out flank the Hillarybeast from the Left. Now he's been forced to tack hard to the Right to get the votes of the Center-cf. his remarks saying he approved of the Heller Decision, and he's starting to alienate his supporters on the Left. Columnist Richard Cohen described him as as a fog of a man, sunlight burns away fog.
and he was able to out flank the Hillarybeast from the Left. Now he's been forced to tack hard to the Right to get the votes of the Center-cf. his remarks saying he approved of the Heller Decision, and he's starting to alienate his supporters on the Left. Columnist Richard Cohen described him as as a fog of a man, sunlight burns away fog.
Don't be so troubled. That is the goal of the media saturation, to give Obama an air of inevitability. Bush and Cheney are not running, McCain and Bush have long standing bad blood between then. The only things they have in common are what he and most Republicans have in common. His continuing a Bush administration is as absurd as Obama being a Muslim mole.
Fact is McCain and Obama are tied in the polls DESPITE Obama's media saturation. His bump from his overseas trip is already gone, and McCain hasn't even gotten started yet. So far he's just feeding Obama all the rope he wants so Obama can talk himself into a corner, and he already has. Electoral vote polls show him slipping too.
The debates haven't happened yet and the backlash of the media saturation is just beginning. People are quickly bored with their entertainers and Obama's shine is dimming.
Don't let them discourage you, instead start commenting "I'm sure getting tired of seeing Obama's face plastered everywhere. What do they think we are, robots?" That will get a conversation going on about how "this Obama thing is like a Pepsi commercial that plays 15 times an hour trying to get you to memorize the song. After a while it gets nauseating. OK, he's running for President, we know already, But what's up with the bouncy positions? Why won't he finally say what his FIRM positions are? GEEEZ Talk and talk and STILL not know where he stands except for CHANGE. If Obama mania were real he would have more of a lead then a statistical tie.... Don't let people tell you they're a shu-in when they can't pull away from 'old boring McCain' that actually influenced the President to CHANGE his ways and do it right in Iraq, replace Rumsfeld, and to get a NEW General that will get the job DONE which he HAS quite well despite Obama saying that in his judgement the surge not only wouldn't work but would INCREASE violence. Yeah, looks like his judgement and his eperience need some ripening. Can't blame him though with only 147 days experience before deciding he was qualified to be President. You've seen those guys that don't even know enough to realize they don't know! Ha HA HA."
That will get em' thinking even if they don't admit it. People's talk tends to be a 'go with the flow' but when they see it's OK not to regurgitate what they keep hearing then they will be more open about thier Obama doubts.
Fact is McCain and Obama are tied in the polls DESPITE Obama's media saturation. His bump from his overseas trip is already gone, and McCain hasn't even gotten started yet. So far he's just feeding Obama all the rope he wants so Obama can talk himself into a corner, and he already has. Electoral vote polls show him slipping too.
The debates haven't happened yet and the backlash of the media saturation is just beginning. People are quickly bored with their entertainers and Obama's shine is dimming.
Don't let them discourage you, instead start commenting "I'm sure getting tired of seeing Obama's face plastered everywhere. What do they think we are, robots?" That will get a conversation going on about how "this Obama thing is like a Pepsi commercial that plays 15 times an hour trying to get you to memorize the song. After a while it gets nauseating. OK, he's running for President, we know already, But what's up with the bouncy positions? Why won't he finally say what his FIRM positions are? GEEEZ Talk and talk and STILL not know where he stands except for CHANGE. If Obama mania were real he would have more of a lead then a statistical tie.... Don't let people tell you they're a shu-in when they can't pull away from 'old boring McCain' that actually influenced the President to CHANGE his ways and do it right in Iraq, replace Rumsfeld, and to get a NEW General that will get the job DONE which he HAS quite well despite Obama saying that in his judgement the surge not only wouldn't work but would INCREASE violence. Yeah, looks like his judgement and his eperience need some ripening. Can't blame him though with only 147 days experience before deciding he was qualified to be President. You've seen those guys that don't even know enough to realize they don't know! Ha HA HA."
That will get em' thinking even if they don't admit it. People's talk tends to be a 'go with the flow' but when they see it's OK not to regurgitate what they keep hearing then they will be more open about thier Obama doubts.
Unregistered
Moderator
Bruxley continues to base his claim of a tie between McCain and Obama on the polls of random individuals taken on a national level. These polls may equate to the popular vote, but they do not correlate to the electoral college. At this point, Obama has an estimated 45 vote lead in the electoral college (according to Rasmussen). This is a problem. If it is not soon reversed, McCain will not win. Obama's lead in Pennsylvannia has widened. I see rough times ahead.
I see Bruxley's point in trying to paint the tie in the popular poll as evidence that Obama is slipping. If enough Republicans can spread that message, it will stain Obama's perception by undecided voters, and might mislead people into believing that Obama's campaign is slipping. Its not a great strategy, but seems to be the best the Republicans can do at the moment. By tarnishing Obama's media "star", even if by misinformation, it may perhaps give McCain a little hope of advancing. I think at this point McCain has little to lose by using strategies such as this, and in the end we will be better off, even if it is misleading.
I see Bruxley's point in trying to paint the tie in the popular poll as evidence that Obama is slipping. If enough Republicans can spread that message, it will stain Obama's perception by undecided voters, and might mislead people into believing that Obama's campaign is slipping. Its not a great strategy, but seems to be the best the Republicans can do at the moment. By tarnishing Obama's media "star", even if by misinformation, it may perhaps give McCain a little hope of advancing. I think at this point McCain has little to lose by using strategies such as this, and in the end we will be better off, even if it is misleading.
Maybe, just maybe, both ends of the political spectrum are coming to the same conclusion. Something is wrong; something is badly wrong with the body politic. However the American system was supposed to work, it no longer is working in the accustomed manner.
Once such a conclusion is reached a number of follow on possibilities open up. One I'm wrestling with is have we reached the point of no fixin' it. Are we at the point where we need to tear down the standing wreckage and rebuild from the ground up. I don't know; I don't have answers. What I do have is an assumption that the direction we are headed bodes nothing by trouble for individual liberty, freedom of conscious, and freedom of religion. I watch as the ground shifts beneath me and I realize that if I stand still at some point I will be considered a social misfit if not a social criminal.
Neither party holds promise of reversing the trends I find so dangerous. What am I to do? Bellyaching to my elected officials (I don't care what level) is a waste of my resources. Republics are supposed to be able to refresh themselves via elections. So I look at the present slate of candidates and see unacceptable commonality. Where is the change coming from? Certainly not the political process.
One reason I think our society has been successful is because we've had the framework which would permit us to regenerate ourselves through the political process. We could implement serious change without having to engage in massive civil disobedience or worse. I am coming to the conclusion the tools of peaceful change have been removed from the body politic.
Once such a conclusion is reached a number of follow on possibilities open up. One I'm wrestling with is have we reached the point of no fixin' it. Are we at the point where we need to tear down the standing wreckage and rebuild from the ground up. I don't know; I don't have answers. What I do have is an assumption that the direction we are headed bodes nothing by trouble for individual liberty, freedom of conscious, and freedom of religion. I watch as the ground shifts beneath me and I realize that if I stand still at some point I will be considered a social misfit if not a social criminal.
Neither party holds promise of reversing the trends I find so dangerous. What am I to do? Bellyaching to my elected officials (I don't care what level) is a waste of my resources. Republics are supposed to be able to refresh themselves via elections. So I look at the present slate of candidates and see unacceptable commonality. Where is the change coming from? Certainly not the political process.
One reason I think our society has been successful is because we've had the framework which would permit us to regenerate ourselves through the political process. We could implement serious change without having to engage in massive civil disobedience or worse. I am coming to the conclusion the tools of peaceful change have been removed from the body politic.
We seem to have this discussion often when it is pointed out that Obama mania is smoke and mirrors. That by popular vote polling (he is touted to be wildly popular hence the Obama mania) he is statistically tied with McCain who is doing little more then treading water. Not exactly mania.
The popular polling is done daily by Rasmussen and the electoral is a week old. It's much more complex so daily updates would be overly laborious. The 45 elector vote lead sounds big until the 163 electoral vote toss-ups are observed. That makes it far less indicative of a substantive lead. A lead it is for sure but still lacks anything remotely definable as mania and far from the inevitability being touted.
If this were October and he had a 50 electoral lead with fewer then 50 tossups that would be different. As it stands the electoral lead is not only slim, but according to Rasmussen's week old data, it is slipping.
That's not spin or a fabrication or a strategy. It's simply a reasoned analysis of the data presented. I don't claim it means more or less then it is. It's this 'Obama Mania' hype that doesn't stand up to the data presented.
The popular polling is done daily by Rasmussen and the electoral is a week old. It's much more complex so daily updates would be overly laborious. The 45 elector vote lead sounds big until the 163 electoral vote toss-ups are observed. That makes it far less indicative of a substantive lead. A lead it is for sure but still lacks anything remotely definable as mania and far from the inevitability being touted.
If this were October and he had a 50 electoral lead with fewer then 50 tossups that would be different. As it stands the electoral lead is not only slim, but according to Rasmussen's week old data, it is slipping.
That's not spin or a fabrication or a strategy. It's simply a reasoned analysis of the data presented. I don't claim it means more or less then it is. It's this 'Obama Mania' hype that doesn't stand up to the data presented.
Don't take too much hope out of Obama's supposed support of the Heller decision. He has stated he believes the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, but he also believes that governments can impose "reasonable" restrictions on guns. He considered the total ban in DC for handguns as reasonable. While a State senator in IL, he supported EVERY gun control bill brought up in the legislature and voted against every pro-gun bill. He has done the same in his limited time in the Senate. Part of my pessimism is from the reality that if Obama is elected we can expect several Supreme Court justices to retire during his term. Obama will undoubtedly nominate, and a Democrat Senate will confirm, arch liberals to this court and affect our lives for years to come. Just read the dissenting opinions in the Heller case, and marvel at the convoluted irrational reasoning of some of those who supported the DC law. It is sickening to see a supposedly intelligent justice of the Supreme Court twist logic and facts around to justify a political opinion in favor of gun control, the Constitution be damned. This, on top of the legislative action by Obama and a liberal congress will change America. I am considering no longer to call myself a Conservative, but as advised by radio talk show host Michael Savage, to identify myself as a Nationalist. You may laugh but I truly love this country. I served 24 years in the Army to defend and protect this great nation. I am sick with dispair over where we are headed. I am not giving up, but I have little reason for optimism. In the meantime, I can stockpile ammo, buy a few more guns, and send a few bucks to McCain so hopefully he will have a chance of winning.
Unregistered
Moderator
As always it is interesting to see Bruxley spin poll data.
In summary, it would seem he believes that a tie in the popular poll is actually a McCain win. And a 45 electoral college vote lead for Obama is actually an Obama loss.
Interesting...
In summary, it would seem he believes that a tie in the popular poll is actually a McCain win. And a 45 electoral college vote lead for Obama is actually an Obama loss.
Interesting...
Your reading of the post is .......odd.
Obviously I never claimed anything of the sort. My premise is, and has been, that the data doesn't reflect Obama being near as inevitable or wildly popular as is touted.
There is no real reason to loss hope, it's a goal of the media saturation not a real phenomenon.
Obama has not had the media scrutiny yet that can radically change the tenor of the election. They have largely given him a pass on most issues. Especially relationships, like the Ayres-Doern connection, which is far more than a casual relationship by most accounts.
But, the press is largely comprised of sharks, and if one of them gets a whiff of blood, the frenzy will commence.
But, the press is largely comprised of sharks, and if one of them gets a whiff of blood, the frenzy will commence.
Unregistered
Moderator
Actually, I will agree that I overstated what Bruxley was saying.
Upon re-reading, he appears to think that a small lead in the popular poll for Obama is really a McCain lead. And a 45 vote electoral college lead for Obama means nothing.
Should he disagree with this, I am sure he will respond to clarify.
Upon re-reading, he appears to think that a small lead in the popular poll for Obama is really a McCain lead. And a 45 vote electoral college lead for Obama means nothing.
Should he disagree with this, I am sure he will respond to clarify.