Max Cleland as Obama's VP

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Buzzcook

New member
Given all the speculation about who's going to be the VP for Obama or McCain I thought I'd throw out what i think is a good choice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Cleland

Max Cleland satisfies the "democrat must have a Southerner" requirerment. Even though current demographic trends might obviate the need to run with a Southerner, it couldn't hurt and it'll give the talking heads one less thing to kvetch about.

Cleland has practical experience as an administrator which is a bit of a plus if the team gets elected but not very important in the race itself.
But more importantly Cleland was a popular head of the Veteran's Administration and veteran's issues could be a very important theme in the election.

Cleland's military experience is a plus for the Obama campaign. It pretty much cancels out McCain's own heroics.

Probably most importantly the media seem to agree that the treatment Cleland got during the 2002 cycle was unfair and they might hold back on parroting republican spin against him.

So what do you all think?
 
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thallub

New member
You certainly bring up a very good point. I met Max Cleland in WRGH many years ago. No one has the grit that Max has. He would not allow patients or staff to push his wheelchair in the halls.

Max Cleland would make a superb VP.
 
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Alleykat

Moderator
I've known Max for years. He couldn't pass the background check. (Don't read too much into that; it involved lascivious phone calls) Max is also incredibly bitter about his loss of the Senate seat and, FWIW, wouldn't carry his home state of GA, were he the DemocRATic VP nominee. Max isn't the kind of Southerner who'd help Obama. Southerners see Max as the truly liberal DemocRAT that he is. Nice guy, but a liberal DemocRAT.
 
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ilbob

New member
I think he would be a wonderful choice. No help to the democrats in getting any state and a guy who could be attacked for his far left political stances.
 
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SIGSHR

New member
Having read conflicting stories on how Max Cleland suffered his injuries, I wonder how closely he
would hold up to close scrutiny.
 
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zukiphile

New member
Cleland's military experience is a plus for the Obama campaign. It pretty much cancels out McCain's own heroics.
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I don't think their experiences are even close.

Let me be clear that I don't think McCain's admirable conduct in captivity is an overriding credential for the office many decades later, but that doesn't mean McCain and Clelland are fungible.

Probably most importantly the media seem to agree that the treatment Cleland got during the 2002 cycle was unfair and they might hold back on parroting republican spin against him.
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That charge of unfairness really doesn't hold up to moderately close examination.
 
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Buzzcook

New member
How Cleland got his injuries.

On April 8, with a month left in his tour, Cleland was ordered to set up a radio relay station on a nearby hill. A helicopter flew him and two soldiers to the treeless top of Hill 471, east of Khe Sanh. Cleland knew some of the soldiers camped there from Operation Pegasus. He told the pilot he was going to stay a while. Maybe have a few beers with friends.

When the helicopter landed, Cleland jumped out, followed by the two soldiers. They ducked beneath the rotors and turned to watch the liftoff. Cleland reached down to pick up the grenade he believed had popped off his flak jacket. The blast slammed him backward, shredding both his legs and one arm. He was 25 years old...

David Lloyd was a gung-ho, 19-year-old enlisted Marine, son of a Baltimore ship worker, who went to Vietnam because he "wanted to kill Communists."

On April 8, 1968, he was in a mortar pit on a hill near Khe Sanh when he heard an explosion. Shrapnel bounced off his flak jacket. He ran to the injured officer, a man named Max Cleland. 'Hold on there, captain,' Lloyd told Cleland. 'The chopper will be here in a minute.'

Lloyd took off his web belt and tied it around one of Cleland's shredded legs. When the medics arrived, he left to help another injured soldier — one of the two who had gotten off a helicopter with Cleland.

That soldier was crying. 'It was mine,' he said, 'it was my grenade.'

According to Lloyd, the private had failed to take the extra precaution that experienced soldiers did when they grabbed M-26 grenades from the ammo box: bend the pins, or tape them in place, so they couldn't accidentally dislodge. This soldier had a flak jacket full of grenades with treacherously straight pins, Lloyd says. "He was a walking death trap."
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Was Clelands treatment in the 2002 election cycle was unfair? John McCain said it was. But of course McCain is know for changing his position, like on torture, so he might have changed his position on suggestions that Cleland was pro Usama Ben Laden.

Alleykat: Cleland won election in 96 and lost by a reletively small margin in 02. Given that republicans are much less popular than they were 6 years ago I think it's probable that Cleland might get Georgia called for Obama.
 
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zukiphile

New member
Was Clelands treatment in the 2002 election cycle was unfair? John McCain said it was.
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McCain is frequently wrong. See Campaign Finance "Reform."

...on suggestions that Cleland was pro Usama Ben Laden
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Who suggested that? Not the campaign ads of Clelland's opponent in 2002.

Watch the actual ads, since some of the descriptions on the net are misleading.

Here is the ad he complained about after losing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKFYpd0q9nE
 
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Erich

New member
I think Wayne LaPierre has about as much chance as being put on the Dem ticket with Obama as Cleland. :)
 
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Alleykat

Moderator
Max thought for many years that the grenade that caused his injuries was his grenade. It was only in fairly recent history that he learned otherwise. I like Max...have some pretty neat videos of his playing baseball catch with some kids, one of whom is one of my sons. Max was extremely kind to my former father-in-law, when the father-in-law was injured in a vehicle accident. Max visited him several times in the hospital.

Having said all that and what a nice guy Max is, his politics and mine just don't jibe.
 
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Buzzcook

New member
Erich is right, there's no way Cleland will get the nod.

Some not very inspiring nonentity will become the VP for both camps. I just thought I'd mention what I think would be a good choice.

McCain's time as a POW was admirable. It's just that every one of the other POWs were just as admirable and many were more so.
McCain has it both ways, on the one hand he mentions being a POW every chance he has. On the other hand he also claims that he is very modest about being a POW and claims to rarely mention it.
Also being a POW doesn't automatically make one an expert on military or foreign affairs or national security. But don't tell that to the main stream media or they'll turn on you like they did Wesley Clark when he mentioned the fact.
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859,00.html

Anyway back to Obama and Cleland. The way I see it Obama tends to play way too safe. The people who have been mentioned as his VP choices seem more like a list of people that won't offend the beltway insiders. Playing to that bunch has been a losing strategy for democrats for two presidential elections in a row. Obama should be bold and a choice like Cleland would be that kind of choice.
 
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papercut

New member
Leftist Cleland for Veep?

I have no doubt that Obama is far left, but if I were doubtful, picking Cleland would erase those doubts.

Max Cleland was instrumental in passing the federal law that allows federal agents to confiscate your money without a warrant if you were "caught" in possession of $10,000 in cash. ("Instrumental" meaning that he *introduced* the freakin' law in the Senate.)

Max Cleland told reporters at a conference that Pres. Bush attacked Iraq and deposed Saddam because "his daddy was a failed president."

I give Cleland credit for his support of veterans :) , especially wounded ones (something he has personal knowledge of!), but unfortunately everything else that comes out of his mouth is far-left garbage. :barf:
 
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zukiphile

New member
Let me be clear that I don't think McCain's admirable conduct in captivity is an overriding credential for the office many decades later, but that doesn't mean McCain and Clelland are fungible.
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Admirable conduct in captivity? I know a former Viet Nam POW who hates McCains guts and thinks he is a traitor.

Read what Col. Hackworth thought of McCain.
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I like Hackworth well enough, but I would not substitute his judgement for my own.

He can dismiss McCain's refusal of out of order release as merely following orders, but not everyone had the will to follow those orders.

I've done enough work with holocaust survivors to know that being locked up, filthy, beaten and crippled doesn't always make you a good or generally functional person. It is no slight to Cleland to note that though he was terribly crippled, his experience is not the same.
 
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