Harry Bonar
New member
Sirs:
There is nothing - nothing in the whole world like a good Mauser Action!
Harry B.
There is nothing - nothing in the whole world like a good Mauser Action!
Harry B.
Mauser
- Thread starter Harry Bonar
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
I liked the article in Rifle magazine some years ago that described the surplus Mauser as the Gunsmith's Full Employment Program. Just like a 1911, only more so, there are just so many things you can't do without on the action that is supposed to be the wonder of the age. The author got a lot of hate mail on that one.
IMHO, the Mauser 98 is the best rifle action ever designed. But to make it today like they were made "back then" would be too costly except in some low wage areas in Eastern Europe or the Orient.
There is nothing wrong with modern American sporting rifles like the Remington 700, but they are made for easy, automated manufacture. The Mausers, as military rifles, were made on the basis that "cost is no object when national security is involved."
Jim
There is nothing wrong with modern American sporting rifles like the Remington 700, but they are made for easy, automated manufacture. The Mausers, as military rifles, were made on the basis that "cost is no object when national security is involved."
Jim
Harry Bonar
New member
Buddies:
I agree with what's been said.
I would never - never, fit a bbl. to any action without first putting a mandrel through it and truing the action face - Rem. and Sav. are usually perfect as are the P14 abd P17 Enfields - and some others but I always do that - very slightly, not vey much!
I would always check lug engagement and contact (most factory new rifles only bear on one lug) and the quality and hardness on factory actions obviates the set-back problem (I've found factory actions, fired hundreds of times that STILL bear on one lug only)
Mausers are easy to fit bbls to - the Savage perhaps being the best. They encase the cartridge head as well as any (despite the Rem. "three rings of steel" concept). If a Mauser blows up the maleable case hardened ring usually just "swells" instead of fracturing.
Most Mausers will steadilly take pressures far in excess of their design features. I've built 9.3X62 and 9.3X64 and 416 Taylor on Turkish actions and they have all been just great!
Of course, we all know that most all actions are designed to use a CUP. of from 45,000 to 55,000 - all within the parameters of military Mausers (that is, correctly fit Mausers).
I know this is frowned upon but I fit and chamber my bbls to have some feel on a new factory case when closed - this results in zero headspace so there is no battering of the lugs. Forgive my ramblings!
Harry B.
I agree with what's been said.
I would never - never, fit a bbl. to any action without first putting a mandrel through it and truing the action face - Rem. and Sav. are usually perfect as are the P14 abd P17 Enfields - and some others but I always do that - very slightly, not vey much!
I would always check lug engagement and contact (most factory new rifles only bear on one lug) and the quality and hardness on factory actions obviates the set-back problem (I've found factory actions, fired hundreds of times that STILL bear on one lug only)
Mausers are easy to fit bbls to - the Savage perhaps being the best. They encase the cartridge head as well as any (despite the Rem. "three rings of steel" concept). If a Mauser blows up the maleable case hardened ring usually just "swells" instead of fracturing.
Most Mausers will steadilly take pressures far in excess of their design features. I've built 9.3X62 and 9.3X64 and 416 Taylor on Turkish actions and they have all been just great!
Of course, we all know that most all actions are designed to use a CUP. of from 45,000 to 55,000 - all within the parameters of military Mausers (that is, correctly fit Mausers).
I know this is frowned upon but I fit and chamber my bbls to have some feel on a new factory case when closed - this results in zero headspace so there is no battering of the lugs. Forgive my ramblings!
Harry B.
Hi, Harry,
I respect your experience, but I wonder about a couple of things. Fitting and chambering a barrel to a new case is fine, except that cases have tolerance factors, too, and you can even find them out of spec. So you may fit things so that there is no play with that case, but if that is a "long" case, you will still have "headspace" with a "short" case. If that is a "short" case, the rifle might not accept a "medium" or "long" case. That is why, IMHO, it is best to use headspace gauges which have (in theory) "zero tolerance" and will allow the rifle to work with any ammo that is within tolerances.
Even if the ammunition is perfect and there is no free play in the bolt lugs at all to begin with, you will still get battering of the bolt lugs and bolt seats. I have compared the pressure on the bolt lugs in normal firing to dropping a Ford 150 Super Crew Cab onto the bolt face*. That kind of pressure will eventually distort steel whether there is any play or not, and of course normal operating wear alone will also eventually cause any tightly fitted bolt or breechblock to loosen up.
*In a .30-'06 with a chamber pressure of 50,000 psi, the force on the bolt face will be about 5100 pounds, close to the curb weight of that Ford pickup.
Jim
I respect your experience, but I wonder about a couple of things. Fitting and chambering a barrel to a new case is fine, except that cases have tolerance factors, too, and you can even find them out of spec. So you may fit things so that there is no play with that case, but if that is a "long" case, you will still have "headspace" with a "short" case. If that is a "short" case, the rifle might not accept a "medium" or "long" case. That is why, IMHO, it is best to use headspace gauges which have (in theory) "zero tolerance" and will allow the rifle to work with any ammo that is within tolerances.
Even if the ammunition is perfect and there is no free play in the bolt lugs at all to begin with, you will still get battering of the bolt lugs and bolt seats. I have compared the pressure on the bolt lugs in normal firing to dropping a Ford 150 Super Crew Cab onto the bolt face*. That kind of pressure will eventually distort steel whether there is any play or not, and of course normal operating wear alone will also eventually cause any tightly fitted bolt or breechblock to loosen up.
*In a .30-'06 with a chamber pressure of 50,000 psi, the force on the bolt face will be about 5100 pounds, close to the curb weight of that Ford pickup.
Jim
Harry Bonar
New member
98 Mauser
Hey! Jim:
I now, Jim, about the case factor but I've had good luck (I also use a guage).
On a Belted Mag I use a guage I made - it's .220 - the Brits used to use two guages on belted mags - .220 go - .222 no-go!!!
I've found most belts are around .216-.218!!
Good to "see" you again - I agree!
Harry B.
Hey! Jim:
I now, Jim, about the case factor but I've had good luck (I also use a guage).
On a Belted Mag I use a guage I made - it's .220 - the Brits used to use two guages on belted mags - .220 go - .222 no-go!!!
I've found most belts are around .216-.218!!
Good to "see" you again - I agree!
Harry B.
In my opinion you should start with a better action. You should be able to get a VZ24 for $75 more than a Turk.
When you add up the cost of doing a custom rifle, that $75 is peanuts.
Barrel -- $100 for a cheapie
Reamer Rental -- $35
Mounts -- $40
Scope -- $150 for a cheapie
Bedding -- $15
Sling -- $10
Stock -- $100
Trigger -- $30
Safety -- $15
Studs -- $10
Bolt handle -- $40
Stock Finish -- $5
We are now up to $500 before you even buy an action. These estimates are for inexpensive but serviceable components. An extra $75 for a decent action is money well-spent. Add $150 for a VZ24 donor rifle.
At this point, you should also note that you are rivaling the cost of a brand, spanking new Remington, Ruger, Savage, Winchester, or Browning rifle, and I am assuming that you will do 100% of the work yourself, including drilling, tapping, bolt handle alteration, barreling, headspacing, inletting, finishing, etc.
I am not trying to discourage you here -- Only trying to add some realism to the discussion. Like Harry, I love the model 98 for a hunting rifle. I actually do this stuff for a hobby (Yes, all of it.). Because of the total cost in relation to everything else, you can see where it just does not pay to scrimp on components. Spend the extra $100 for a premium barrel, $100 for better wood, $100 for a nicer action, $100 for a better scope, etc. You increase the cost of the rifle by 25% and increase the value to you by an immeasurable amount.
Happy gunsmithing!
Clemson
When you add up the cost of doing a custom rifle, that $75 is peanuts.
Barrel -- $100 for a cheapie
Reamer Rental -- $35
Mounts -- $40
Scope -- $150 for a cheapie
Bedding -- $15
Sling -- $10
Stock -- $100
Trigger -- $30
Safety -- $15
Studs -- $10
Bolt handle -- $40
Stock Finish -- $5
We are now up to $500 before you even buy an action. These estimates are for inexpensive but serviceable components. An extra $75 for a decent action is money well-spent. Add $150 for a VZ24 donor rifle.
At this point, you should also note that you are rivaling the cost of a brand, spanking new Remington, Ruger, Savage, Winchester, or Browning rifle, and I am assuming that you will do 100% of the work yourself, including drilling, tapping, bolt handle alteration, barreling, headspacing, inletting, finishing, etc.
I am not trying to discourage you here -- Only trying to add some realism to the discussion. Like Harry, I love the model 98 for a hunting rifle. I actually do this stuff for a hobby (Yes, all of it.). Because of the total cost in relation to everything else, you can see where it just does not pay to scrimp on components. Spend the extra $100 for a premium barrel, $100 for better wood, $100 for a nicer action, $100 for a better scope, etc. You increase the cost of the rifle by 25% and increase the value to you by an immeasurable amount.
Happy gunsmithing!
Clemson