Massad Ayoob or Clint Smith?

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ramp_tech

New member
Would you take classes with Massad Ayoob of lethal force institute or Clint Smith of the Thunder Ranch?

They have about the same tuition charge and small class room setting, Thunder Ranch requires all students to use lead-free ammo which in term has a higher cost.

Have any one took class(es) with them? How do you like their style?

Thanks! Planning on a vocation of gun camp next year!:D
 
K

KingEdward

New member
have read both extensively, have not taken classes.

kind of like choosing between a porsche and a ferrari.

can't make a bad choice.

After all the reading and the way he seems to logically approach most
things, I'd probably choose Mr. Ayoob's LFI.
 
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smoakingun

New member
the wife and I took uncle masses'(plural possevive?) LFI1 class, if you never take another class, make it this one. the classroom instrucion is very thorough, based on real world experience and court cases, and is geared for the legal and practical realities of carrying a firearm. the hands on portion is straight fundamentals, basics of the draw, the weapon hold,(single and two handed) the shot, the reload,and reholster. take this class then build on it with other training
 
D

Double Naught Spy

New member
I have been to Thunder Ranch (old school, not Oregon) multiple times and have not been to LFI.

Ayoob and I do not agree on a lot of things, but if my choices were his place or Clint's, I would choose his place. You will get fine instruction at both but have a lot LESS hassles with transportation and materials at LFI.

Plus, if you are newer to shooting, you will get a lot more of the legal stuff at LFI. You will get more ground time at TR.

So it depends on your needs, capabilities, finances, and abilities to get resources.
 
C

Cuban_Homer

New member
Clint smith is the best! If I had money I would go to his ranch. I wish his DVD's weren't $50 bucks. Or I'd buy them all.
 
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Jim March

New member
From everything I hear, the first class anyone ought to take is with Mas. He's excellent at mindset and legality issues, a good teacher and a good guy.

After that, you need to think about where your focus is, and go that direction. That takes more study of the various gun senseis out there.
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
From the little I have read of Ayoob and his spots on personal defense tv I would say he is less firearms oriented than Clint SMith. Clint Smith seems to have one response to life or property:His well worn 1911. He is good with it and his pistol instruction is great. His saying 'If you aren't shooting, be reloading. If you aren't reloading, be moving. If you aren't moving you are dead because someone will take off your head,' is good and easy to keep in mind, but his mind seems to be far too firearms oriented for me. Ayoob seems to have a slightly broader base.
 
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Frank Ettin

Administrator
They each teach very different classes. Mas' focus is mindset and the legal side of things. In fact Mas calls says of his class, "It's a major in when with a minor in how." Clint Smith's focus, from what I've heard and read, is shooting. I've taken Mas' LFI-1, and while I've not been to Thunder Ranch, I have been to Gunsite.

I think one really ought to have both.
 
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skydiver3346

New member
My choice is Massad Ayoob:

He just makes good sense to me and comes across down to earth and easy to comphrehend.
Of course, I am sure that Mr. Smith does a great job as well, but my personal choice would be Mr. Ayoob.
 
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ilbob

New member
I have not taken either.

I would probably take LFI first for many of the reasons others have mentioned. It seems as much a class on when not to shoot as it is shooting, and that is pretty important.

If you want to improve your shooting skills TR would seem to be a better choice.
 
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