Martini Henry

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kealil

New member
Hello all!

I have been bitten by the bug for some of these old black powder cartridge rifles. I will start by saying that I have never shot ANY BP guns and I dont know anyone who does.


I am really thinking about getting one of these Martini Henry rifles or ones of similar design. Can anyone give me some idea what to look out for on these rifles? Any warning signs? Are there similar rifles that would be equally as interesting?

I am kind of jumping in on the deep end and not sure the best way to proceed.

thank you for any help
 
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kilimanjaro

New member
Do not buy one that needs parts, or a Khyber Pass handmade, if you want to shoot it.

Plan on spending around $750 minimum. You can get a good deal, but not commonly.

The Lee reloading dies are the best deal on Earth. Get two Classic loaders and set one in each press. Buffalo Gun Works sells brass and loaded shells.

Fun Fun Fun to shoot, and lots of history to read. Colonel Mike Snook has three excellent books out about the Victorian Army and famous campaigns, with good discussions of the Martini useage and tactics.

Only way to jump in is feet first!

Always reload your shells a bit light. Less recoil, and longer gun life.
 
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kealil

New member
Thank you for the info. I have the press, I'll keep the lee dies in mind. I also have also been reading up and watching some videos on reloading for the cartridge. Iraqveteran8888 just released a video where he features the rifles and shows how to form brass from shotshells. His videos are actually what sparked my interest in the Martini's specifically

I was browsing around and found these.

It looks to be a variant of the Martini Henry. The reviews show a very positive image. There was also some pretty big support from Iraqveteran8888. I dont mind doing some cleanup. I assumed that some cleaning would come with the territory.

Anything to be aware of with these?
 
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Magnum Wheel Man

New member
you're heading into a tricky area... they tell you those were made in Nepal...

I'd look for the British manufactured or Aussie guns... in the Martini format

I bought a Enfield Martini, at a gun show a couple years ago... supposed to have been certified from some South Dakota auction certification... hooey... it was a Kyber pass forgery... I was able to use it as a project gun, which we re-proofed & stamped "Not British" in a prominent place on the receiver... it's now safe for normal 30-30 loads...

there are many single shot guns that would work great for black powder cartridges... unfortunately the Martini's are not legal for a lot of the black powder rifle competitions, ( I think because they lack an exposed hammer... as originals are plenty strong ) where as a rolling block, or Winchester falling block ( High wall or low wall ) are better accepted for a lot of the competitions...

BTW... I love the single shot rifles ( though I currently shoot everything with smokeless ) I have a Remington #1 Rolling Block, that's chambered in 32-40, & a Navy Arms reproduction rolling block, chambered in 40-65, & 3 different Martini's in 30-30, 45-70, & 50-70... & have been wanting at least one example of the low wall & high wall Winchesters...

just warning you to be careful of any rifle that could have been make in the areas that each village makes these guns up... some ( very few ) are nicely made, & some are so crude, they are unsafe to fire in any form... & they are not beyond stamping in proofs & identifying marks from other makers to try to fool a buyer... the Enfield stamping on my forgery was quite well done, but the internal parts were very crudely made... even if these look good, they are made from what ever scrap can be rounded up...
 
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T. O'Heir

New member
Reloading for which cartridge? MH's come in .577-450 and .303 British, if you get really lucky(never seen a .303 Brit MH in decent condition though). Among others. 19th Century Commercial hunting cartridges included.
.577-450 brass is made by Bertram(Australian) and is horrendously expensive. Runs $159.95Cdn per 20 up here. Buffalo Arms wants $176.98US per 20 for loaded ammo. The brass they had is discontinued. Was made by Jamison International(now Captech International). Was $61.60 per 20.
Have a How-to for making reloadable .577-450 cartridges out of 3/4" brass bar stock if you want it. Has a 70 grain powder capacity.
 
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kealil

New member
I was looking for the 577/450. The YouTuber IraqVeteran8888 did a 30 minute video on forming new brass using the Lee dies on his channel. To be honest, I am interested in the rifle but I am more interested in tackling a new/old caliber. The oddball nature just intrigued me to no end. I have several years of reloading smokeless and casting under my belt but this would be my first foray into the black.
 
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l.cutler

New member
I would recommend getting the Martini Henry long lever, not the Gehendra. These are real British made guns and are supposed to be in the best condition of the horde of guns from Nepal.
 
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darkgael

New member
M-H

I have two Martinis....one in 577-450 and the other a Cadet in .310 Cadet.
The cartridges:


The big "thing about shooting the 577-450s is measuring the bore.....nominally it is .450.....Nah....most are in the .464+ range. Mine is 0.468" and I paper patch .458s to that diameter.
Brass is available also from Kynock...the original manufacturer. As noted, they aint cheap. Old Western Scsounger used to sell a chamber adapter that allowed one to shoot .45 Colt in the Martini.....but the bullet diameters are quite different and accuracy is not very good.......unless you cast and use the Lee .45 cal REAL bullet meant for muzzleloaders. It has driving bands that are of different diameter and the front of the bullet is 0.464". Close enough.
This target was shot at 50 yards. A case nearly full of FFg BP, a 0.030" fiber wad and the Lee bullet finger pressed into the case.


It is important to slug the barrel so as to determine what size bullet is appropriate. This brings us to another issue...measuring the odd numbered Henry rifling is not as simple as measuring more common lands and grooves.
It is necessary to use the millwright's trick of rotating the slug between the jaws of a micrometer in order to get an accurate reading.
Lee Dies are good....but they do not fit a standard 7/8ths inch press; they are 1 1/4"X12 size. They will fit my Rockchucker with the bushing removed.
Accuracy of the old gun can be improved by improving the sights. This "cross-hair" front sight came from Dixie Gun Works and is for a Zouave rifle. it is removeable. I had to bush it with some polyethylene strips but it works and does not move.


This is the sight in target from the first session with the .310 Cadet. Using the proper heeled bullet from a brass CBE mould. The first shot was high and right. The following shots show downward and left adjustment the last five are the 10s. With the iron sights at 100 yards.
 
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kilimanjaro

New member
You can find Kynoch ammo for about $60 a box. Ten or twenty rounds is all you need, and about all you can shoot and keep your shoulder from turning into mush.
 
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bedbugbilly

New member
Go over to the Cast Boolit site - just put in a search for "Cast Boolit". It's easy to register.

Check out the "Single Shot Rifle" and the "Black Powder Cartridge" forums. There are a few over there that reform brass for the 577/450 as well as load and shoot them.

I had one for many years - never shot it and eventually sold it when I liquidated my long gun collection. I had a box of 10 Kynoch cartridges and I sold those for a pretty penny as the collectors wanted them. Mine was a Brit and it was in nice shape. When I bought mine some 50 years ago - there was no interest in them - now there is a lot of interest in them for BP cartridge shooting.

Good luck on your quest - shooting BP is a great hobby and lots of fun. Just don't be afraid to "take the step" - like anything else, there is a learning process but there are lots of folks out there willing to help you out with information. Along the way - pick up some selective "loading manuals" which will give you good and safe instructions on how to reload. BP cartridges are not "tricky" - but they do have to be loaded differently than those with smokeless powder - a BP cartridge needs to have a compressed load so that there is no air space in the casing behind the lead slug.

A copy of "Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook" will provide you with basic casting, loading, etc. information as well as loading data for Smokeless loads - but there is a lot of good information on reloading in them even if the 577/450 is not listed in it. There are 4 different editions of it and most are excellent. There are other publications on loading BP cartridges as well - google on Amazon and see what comes up.

Good luck to you and I hope you find a rifle that suits your needs - then learn as much as you can and have fun! Once you "smell the holy black" - there's no turning back. I've been doing it for 50+ years and still can't get enough to it! :)
 
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Idaho 45 Vaquero

New member
Gahendra

I bought a Gahendra in untouched condition about 6 years ago (back then they were $190 from sportsman's guide) . After cleaning it well and completely disassembling it I decided it was functional. I couldn't see anything that made me think not to shoot it, the bore on my Gahendra was in surprisingly very good shape, It was completely plugged with some sort of heavy grease that preserved the bore quite well. The worst part of the rifle was really just the nicked up stock, which is still stained quite dark from the heavy grease they put on it when storing it in the Nepali Palace.

I shoot it with fairly light black powder loads. Its pretty accurate. Like all black powder cartridge rifle's Ive shot the fouling gets heavy after a few shots and the accuracy decreases significantly until the bore is swabbed though. But, your first three shots are pretty accurate.

Century Arms was selling not too long ago ancient smokeless .577/.450 Kynoch rounds (their old enough that they brag about smokeless powder on the box) They were way cheaper than any other ammunition available. Caution: Don't shoot these, they have atrocious hang-fires some almost 5 seconds, and they are noticeably quite powerful and recoil way more than my black-powder loads. I quit firing those, after a few rounds. Instead the bullets can be pulled out of the cartridges and reused, dump the mysterious powder stuff and fire the primer by itself. I then use the brass for my own loads. They are berdan primed so some lathe work would need to be done to the primer pocket; mainly making it slightly bigger in diameter, and then drilling a hole in the center of the primer pocket. (berdan brass usually dont have a hole in the center of the priming pocket).
 
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Tidewater_Kid

New member
The Kynoch rounds are loaded with cordite. You can do as you say and drill out the pockets for 209 shotgun primers and they work very nicely. PommyB on the British Militaria forum can fix you up with re-formed 24ga Shotgun brass.

TK
 
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