Martial arts tailored to modern carry?

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irish52084

New member
Do any of you know of a book/dvd/trainer who has taken the time to adapt some martial arts training to address the specific needs of the concealed weapon carrier? I'm thinking less disarming your attacker and more like grappling/fighting with someone while trying to get to a weapon. Maybe the use of a knife in conjunction with a firearm and even body positioning etc...
Maybe even modifying clinch grips and body position or using trips/takedowns that minimize an opponents ability to reach for your weapon.

I've been laid off quite a bit recently, so I have had lots of free time to think of things like this. As a person who has trained in some form of martial art for most of my life, I can't think of too many things I learned that specifically involved a firearm.

Feel free to throw your own ideas out there if you are so inclined.

I wonder how long this wills stay on track, if it even gets started?:D
 
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9-ball

New member
Look for Systema Spetsnaz, they have some pretty good firearm techniques too. I don't have experience with Krav Maga, but I know they focus on the same principles. Beware of trying to learn martial arts from a DVD. In my experience, real martial artists don't sell DVD's. Imposters do (I'm thinking about Lynn C. Thompson for example). Try to get some real training.
 
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smince

Moderator
Look to Tom Sotis/AMOK!

Mark Denny/Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Suarez International 0-5Ft Gunfighting and H2H4CCW

These are the one's I have personal experience with.
 
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irish52084

New member
I'm not planning on attempting to master some new martial art via dvd or book, I was more curious to see if anyone had done what I was thinking of.

I'll check out the stuff listed so far and see if I like it.
 
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MLeake

New member
irish,

It seems to me that any training that focuses on weapon retention would apply.

For instance, in aikido, we often train to take away bokken, jo staff, tanto, etc. But sometimes we also practice retaining and employing the weapon against the person who is trying to take it.

In fact, some takedowns and locks, such as nikkyo, derive directly from stopping a disarm attempt.

I think one of the best basic skills to learn is to NOT try to match strength for strength or grab for grab, but instead to move - with diagonal and/or rotary motion. If somebody tries to grab my sheathed or holstered weapon, I don't want to grab his wrist and wrestle. I might grab his wrist and then pivot on one foot, and use 200lbs of whole-body torque against his wrist while I rotate the weapon to his weak side.

And, of course, at the same time attack him. He's focused on the weapon, not on protecting his eyes and throat; he's focused on the hand on his wrist, not on the heel driving into the side or back of his knee.
 
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smince

Moderator
I'm not planning on attempting to master some new martial art via dvd or book,
Click to expand...
You won't become a "master" from taking one (or all) of the 2-3 day courses posted by pax and myself either.

But both those and the DVD material can be helpful. As with taking a long-term structured MA class, you need to find a like-minded training partner to put the material to practice.
 
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KenpoTex

New member
SouthNarc is the man when it comes to this stuff, his DVDs "Fighting Handgun" and "Practical Unarmed Combat" give a good look at the material. His class "Extreme Close Quarters Concepts" should be, IMO, high on the list for anyone who wants to be truly prepared.

Marc Denny's "Die Less Often" series is also excellent, I'd love to take some training from him someday.
 
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DRBoyle

New member
Remember reading something about the Marine Corps and their LINE technique for the close quarters. From memory their martial arts incorporates everything including armed and unarmed combat with an emphasis on practical
applications. No personal experience with it, but hopefully that helps you research and find what you wanted out of a technique.

It wouldn't unreasonable to expect a few dvd's out there. Sure there's a video from a former SEAL out there for you to look at as well.:)
 
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9-ball

New member
DRBoyle,

I'm sorry to announce you that MCMAP is a pile of **** :)
I've practised martial arts since I was 6 years old, leaving me with some sense of what works and what doesn't (so I hope). When I watched some documentaries about MCMAP, I showed respect for their harder training aspects (like the boxing etc) but the individual techniques that they learned were a combination of what seemed to be very basic Judo (I'm talking about the first week you practice Judo) and WWE (no comment). In all, my opinion, and those of my training partners, MCMAP is more taught to give marines a secure feeling than actually be effective.

Krav Maga and Systema is the way to go if you want to incorporate gun techniques.
 
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DRBoyle

New member
DRBoyle,

I'm sorry to announce you that MCMAP is a pile of **** :)
Click to expand...

9-ball absolutely no need to say sorrow or apologies in anyway.
Admittedly I don't know much about it but heard it mentioned favourably. Figured suggesting it as an option might help the OP in his search. A bonus is if someone with experience comes forward with a knowledgeable opinion. That's what you did here so actually thank you very much for coming forward. Appreciated the share of information.

:)
 
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Skans

Active member
I have trained with a guy that is excellent at incorporating defensive firearms training with martial arts/fighting techniques. He's a pretty private guy and is not offering any courses at this time, so I really can't give his name out. He's a personal friend, used to instruct me in boxing /kickboxing and other fighting techniques for years. I've trained several times with him, where he incorporates fighting techniques with defensive handgun training. If you've never done this, it's really not what you might think - not a lot of punching - kicking going on and anyone can benefit from this (my opinion). It really makes you think about when, how to and when not to use a concealed weapon. It also teaches you the limitations with always relying on your handgun as opposed to using other physical techniques when faced with various attack scenarios.

Great stuff - I highly recommend this type of training!!!!
 
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Rob Pincus

New member
Thanks for the mention, Pax.

FWIW, After this months Black Belt Magazine cover, we are now offering 5 day programs to Martial Artists interested in integrating firearms into their existing self-defense programs. Expect to see more large scale integration if the program is successful. The first course is almost full (Sept) and we got great response/interest at the Martial Arts Industry Association trade show a couple of weeks ago.

Martial Artists' Firearms Training Course, Phase I

Martial Artists' Firearms Training Course, Phase II
 
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irish52084

New member
Nice to see a combination class coming up. I've tailored some of my own knowledge to hopefully work in what I see as common situations of weapons retention or getting myself into a position to employ a weapon. It will be nice to see other peoples thoughts and methods.
 
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JerryM

New member
I intend no offense, but have to wonder when so many spend so much money and time to take course after course to prepare for something that has about as much liklihood of happening as being struck by lightning.

I am of the opinion that much of it is simply a sport. Am I correct? Nothing wrong with that.

Jerry
 
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JerryM

New member
Hi irish52084,

Both. I recognize that there is pleasure in the shooting sports, and shooting in general. Also that some enjoy the martial arts.
My wonder comes from the SD aspect of combining both shooting and martial arts. I get the impression some are preparing for a high probability threat that would require them to fight and shoot.

I don't have an argument with anyone who desires to use a big part of their time and money to do the available training, but I wonder if they really expect to have to use the skills learned in the real world or if it is just mostly for fun?

I am under the impression that there are those whose lives center around the gun and SD. Most of their decisions are based upon those two factors.

My own observations and experience indicates that if one stays away from bars and other potentially trouble spots he has a better chance of getting struck by lightning than being attacked. I do not personally know anyone who has been in a situation that was a life and death situation other than in the military or LEO.

Thanks for the reply, and I do not mean to demean those who place their guns and SD at or near the top of their life priorities. I just do not understand why they think there is so much danger all around them. I don't consider that a shooting somewhere puts me at risk if I pay attention to where I go, and what I do.

Regards,
Jerry
 
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