Marlin 336 C, OK to keep it loaded for years?

Para Bellum

New member
Hi there,

I prefer rifles to shotguns even at shortest ranges. So I want to get a Marlin 336 C and keep it in my office as a defense (SHTF/TEOTWAWKI) option.

I understand the Marlin 336 is very reliable. Would it mind if I kept the tubular magazin always loaded, i.e. for years? I would train with it 2-3 times a year and keep it clean and lubricated etc. So would that be a problem?

Thank you for your time and thought,
PB

Nice, isn't it:
photo_336C.jpg
 

joshua

New member
Any spring compresed for long duration will lose its' temper eventually. Although I kept a 7 round mag for a 1911 fully loaded for years and it didn't seem to bother it, it fire without a hitch. Let's see I was stationed in Japan for 7 years so it stay loaded for a little over 7 years. I'm not sure how much stress a full round of ammo in the tube will cause, if you are going to do that get some nickel plated ammo with the bullets and primers sealed. josh
 

Para Bellum

New member
Anybody who

Anybody who
- made bad experiences with this or
- can confirm that his Marlin didn't care at all?

Thanks, PB
 

dave0520

New member
Typically springs get worn worse from loading/unloading more than just leaving it loaded. A friend of the family left a bunch of AR15 magazines loaded for 10+ years up until last summer when we brought him out the range. All the magazines functioned perfectly.
 

Fal 4 Me

New member
I don't remember where, but I believe I read somewhere that it is not a good idea to keep a tubular magazine loaded for extended periods of time. The problem doesn't come with the springs, but the pressure can effect the rounds and cause them to not feed reliably. I wish I could remember where I read it.
 

CERBERUS

New member
Any spring compresed for long duration will lose its' temper eventually

This isn't true, a spring won't lose a temper do to compression, it would have to cycle through a large tempeture variation in order for the steel to losed it's temper.

it will expierience creep from compresion, and creep is a form of plastic deformation that springs expierience when a load is put on them.

creep is a hard thing to calculate because the time needed for it to happen is so great. in a lot of cases people test spring creep by elevating the tempeture to speed up the process.

All in all though, i would refer to mfg's instructioins, or advice. shoot marlin tech support an e-mail. also, maybe keeping only one or two rounds would be better, and you can put a cartridge holder on the stock somplace. for an extra 4-5
 

Twycross

New member
I know that in a shotgun, the shells will compress inside the tube. But this might not be a problem with metallic cartridges. Would the bullet slide back into the case over time and reduce OAL?
 

Bill T

Moderator
"This isn't true, a spring won't lose a temper do to compression, it would have to cycle through a large tempeture variation in order for the steel to losed it's temper."

This is a correct statement. Spring steel will not change it's characteristics unless the temper of the steel itself is changed thru a large temprature variation. Jeff Cooper once wrote of a person finding a old 1911 pistol in an attic that had been left in a loaded condition since the early 20's. When the gun was fired all the rounds cycled perfectly. Bill T.
 
What is really being discussed is not loss of temper, but a relaxing of a percentage of the stresses that are established when the spring is compressed, and not when the steel is heat treated. Relief of these stresses tends to occur not only with changes in temperature, but also with shock (recoil, for example) or when simply waiting long enough for it to occur.

In the last case, the compressive stress relief is generally referred to as "taking a set". I read recently that the valve spings in piston aircraft engines loose about 15% of their compressive strength in the first couple of weeks they are installed and run (I don't recall the number of hours of operation), then remain compressed fairly constantly until engine temperature and fatigue finally do them in a few years later. The speed of the onset of the set in these valve springs is greatly accelerated by engine heat, but given enough time, that 15% loss would eventually occur anyway.

But here's the thing, as an engineer I can tell you I would not design anything that depends on a compressed spring without leaving some margin of extra compressive strength. A military magazine? Make the spring 15% stronger than it needs to be, and bingo, you have something that still works even after taking that initial set; even decades later, if it hasn't been fatigued by constant use? The aircraft engine keeps working because it was designed this way.

Leaving a spring uncompressed will keep it stronger longer, but falling below minimum required compressive strength is another matter and depends how critcal a particular pressure was to the design? Other than trigger springs, I can't think of any springs in personal firearms that need to hold critical absolute values. Triggers do need periodic readjustment, so you just live with that.

If it worries you, get your springs cryo-tempered. In the case of the aircraft engines, cryo-trempering (treating, processing, etc.) is reported to reduce the amount of iniitial set they take to about 7% from 15%.

Nick
 
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Tom2

New member
How about this?

Maybe keep it half loaded for extended periods so the spring is not compressed all the way. If you had warning, you could plug in the last two or three rounds. If you need it instantly, I would think that what is in the mag would buy you enough time to reload the rest. The cartridges should not care, if the bullet is crimped in the case. And there is not any oil to contaminate them. Good idea to seal the primers and bullet crimps to keep out oil in storage. You can buy bottles of primer sealant at gun shops, or I think that fingernail polish might work.
 

Picher

New member
Sorry, but I don't like the idea of keeping a tubular magazine rifle in an office situation, not because of the spring, but because loaded guns have a way of killing more people by accident than on purpose. I've seen and read about too many people being hurt by guns that were supposed to protect them.

I'd be inclined to have a detachable magazine type rifle or handgun instead of a tubular magazine rifle. The chamber could be empty, requiring only activating the slide, or pulled out so as to clear a round, or better yet, two or more may be lying nearby and loaded only when in your possession.

Handguns can be easily hidden on your person if you need to investigate a situation that may or may not require a weapon. A rifle taken into a situation where it may not be needed isn't usually a good thing...charges or lawsuits can happen. You could even be accidentally killed by a cop over a non-life threatening situation.

A double-action only handgun like a Glock would by my choice. If a threat was anticipated at longer range, requiring a rifle to defend yourself or others, a stainless Ruger Mini-Thirty might be a good rifle. Penetration is greater than with most .223 rounds.

Picher
 
Picher,

On the other hand, a lever gun could hang inconspicuously on a wall looking purely decorative. The advantage of being on home turf is the whole building becomes your holster and you can stash your weapons of choice in one or more locations and not have to lug those choices around. It has been reported multiple times that whether racking a pump shotgun action or chambering a round with a lever, the sound of the working action alone is enough to end many confrontations. No shots fired. The old gun-control advocate's statistic, that you were most likely to shoot yourself or a loved one or someone you know with a gun kept for self-defense, has been thoroughly debunked. If you want a description of how statistics were used to mislead people in this regard, it should be posted in another forum, but I would be happy to oblige. Suffice it to say, it falls under the heading of the old Benjamin Disraeli statement about there being lies, dam# lies, and statistics.

At Gunsite we were taught that a pistol is strictly for unexpected emergency defensive situations, and those situations being unexpected is why you carry one. You want a longer gun if you know you are going into combat, and that includes repelling boarders if they make the make the mistake of alerting you to choose a weapon. Being able to place a shot accurately from a further distance than the bad guy is a key advantage, whether obtained through marksmanship practice or weaponry choice. Having enough power to stop with the fewest hits is another.

As an aside, most of us who took multiple classes at The Ranch came to agree that what you really want for indoor self-defense, given all possible choices, is a shotgun. An 18" 12 ga. pump with ghost-ring sights and with alternating 00 buckshot and slugs in the magazine were the standard recommendation. Self-loaders had a speed edge against multiple targets, but the pumps came close and were easier to clear a jam from.

Plus, of course, chambering the pump makes that lovely sound.

Nick
 
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FirstFreedom

Moderator
My SWAG would be that it's perfectly fine to leave it loaded for years on end, and will work flawlessly when needed. I'd download it by one, however.
 

Clayfish

New member
because loaded guns have a way of killing more people by accident than on purpose

That was said like a true anti. The fact is in a defense situation you need the gun to be loaded and ready to go.

I would discourage the idea of the tubular magazine not because of the spring but what the spring pressure does to the rounds. I keep my rifle loaded in the truck during deer season and before I went to bolt action I carried my 336. I didn't realize untill I unloded mid-season to clean that the pressure had pushed the bullets back into the case almost past the cannelure. I imagine that if that were to take place over the span of a year or so the bullets could be pushed all the way into the case rendering the weapon usless.

My suggestion would be to get a magazine fed rifle. If you're insistant on the lever action, Browning makes a mag fed lever in alot of calibers.
 
Clayfish,

Crimp, crimp, and more crimp. If you got rounds with bullets seated so loosely or crimped so lightly that they pushed back over time under magazine pressure alone, they were not right for a lever gun. I can only imagine what recoil would do to them, and do without it taking all summer.

Nick
 

Clayfish

New member
This happened with remmy and winny factory loads. This was several years before I started reloading. My 336 is pretty hard to load so maybe the spring is a little too strong.
 
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