Maritime Marksmanship

[Sparks2112]

Silly question, but I swear I have an actual reason to be asking.

If one were shooting off of a yacht at targets from 600 meters in, is there anything to keep in mind? I assume negative and positive deflection becomes an issue during hard swells?

I'm thinking a 20" M1A with bipod, 4 power ACOG, and Beta C mags.

Anything I'm not thinking about?

 

[Nick-Mc]

Traveling in muddy waters eh? Big mags, how many rounds do the beta c's hold for that thing? The setup sounds good for your applications, but i know nothing about firing while on a yacht, but i assume you biggest worry will be accurate shots at those ranges while the boat is moving around on the water.

 

[Sparks2112]

It's a 100 round capacity. I'm not really interested in anything other than zodiac raft size accuracy which I think should be more than plausible with that set up. I figure a mix of FMJ and Raufoss style incendiary should dissuade most people from pursuit.

 

[jman841]

my uncle is currently in the same position. He is looking for a .308 rifle to use for maritime applications. He plans on taking some trips out into international waters and has heard some pretty bad horror stories with drug boats and pirates and wants to feel protected. He is also looking at the M1A or some of the newer AR-10's (DPMS and LWRC). I think the toughest factor would be trying to fire at a moving target while moving yourself. You will not be on a stable platform.

He was originally looking at ar-15's but didnt think a .223 would be suitable for the distances and barriers he would be firing at in this instance.

 

[Sparks2112]

I'm leaning towards the M1A myself because of the new Beta C mags and their 100 round capacity. It's a pretty robust design as well.

 

[armsmaster270]

Just remember what affects your accuracy also affects who is shooting at you.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

chasing down the pirates are we? If I were doing such a thing I would be using a mounted gun set in the center of the boat, not a bipod. An M1A with a Bipod would work, although I think I would prefer something with a better coating for the salty environment. You could always IHC the firearm though. Long shots over the water I would want maximum barrel length. You can see ships for miles out in the ocean.

 

[Sparks2112]

chasing down the pirates are we?

Heh, not quite. Hopefully I'm just getting a tan, listening to an ipod and scanning the horizon with binoculars from time to time while people with entirely too much money are getting drunk and doing whatever it is that people with entirely too much money do when on a yacht.

Just remember what affects your accuracy also affects who is shooting at you.

That's one positive at least. Though unfortunately the parameters I'm possibly going to be operating under limit me to no mounted or crew served weapons, while any potential adversaries are under no such limitation.

 

[csmsss]

If you're really interested in staving off pirates, my recommendation would be to stay as far away from the east coast of Africa as possible.

 

[jman841]

not only africa though, there are reports of people taking over ships, killing the owners, then sinking the ship after they take everything worth while. Also, alot of drug trade and criminal activity in south america and central american, Mexico for example is not the safest place right now.

 

[kristop64089]

Caribbean PiRATES ARE NOT MUCH BETTER. Most of them are dope runners.

M1a is nice, or a FAL. (I am FAL biased), FALs are normally, a little less expensive. I doubt they offer the BETA mag though. Either gun would serve you well, as long as you do your part.

Keep a breaching/boarding gun handy, as well. Pirates are fast and SNEAKY. Thanks to pirates tho, I had a good naval tour!

 

[wogpotter]

From experience.
Ricochets off of water are both common & can follow the water surface for a long way, just above the water.
(assuming the water is relatively calm.)

 

[ENC]

Just get some bouys and go practice.

Evan

 

[PDXGS]

M1A with armor piercing and tracer rounds 3 to 1.
You'll also need a decent scope and night vision.
A family friend who sailed the Miami to Bahamas and Caribbean Islands used to have a BAR that he could set on a folding/spring loaded deck mount and a remington marine shotgun with OO and slugs.
Nobody seemed to f with him even in unusually nasty time back in the 80's.

Nothing is better than situational awareness.
When in doubt it's best to show that you're armed, on the radio, and likely too much trouble to f with. That, and at least two pairs of eyes on all night watch on a pitch dark deck.

 

[Major Dave (retired)]

Maritime shooting

Along with being able to see a long way when afloat, too far offshore to see land, you have absolutely no depth perception, thereby no way to correctly judge range to your target.

Keep a range finder handy.

Your yatch, and whatever floating craft the bad guys are on/in will both be bobbing up and down with the wave swells, sometimes both are on top of a swell, one/then the other up/down, etc.

It makes me seasick to think about it - and makes good marksmanship difficult, to say the least. Where's a Navy Seal trained marksman when you need one?!!!

Shoot first (but deny it!) - shoot often, and hope you get lucky.

Oh, yeah, you might run a full 100 round mag thru it to see how badly it might overheat. Might need special lube, or other preventative maintenance procedures to ensure it doesn't seize up on you. I don't know any specifics, but maybe a poster/reader with military armorer training/experience can contribute that info on this post.

Maybe carry a backup weapon, also.

 

[mobjacker]

Other experience

I have not shot a gun off a boat,. but I was a marine photographer for 15 years. Both stills and video. I spent a lot of time shooting off a 16 ft whaler, 20 ft mako, 35 ft deadrise, and a 60 ft sloop. Shooting off a cabinhouse at 20 kts in a sea is fun, but not too difficlut. And we are talking about a 400 or 1000 mm lens.

If the boat is over 40 feet, at under 12 kts- YOUR boats motion will be slow enough that you can easily compensate for it. I would NOT use a mount, just brace your arm against a mast/bulkhead. I had my best luck putting my but against a bulkhead, etc and leaning foward. My spine and shoulders then tracked the target while my arms zeroed in.

I can also tell you that seasickness is a MAJOR PROBLEM. I am not subject to it myself, but as soon as you pick up the camera and look down the lens, it sets in. Be SURE to take something- BEFORE it happens.

I was frequently shooting with a motordrive, at 3-5 frames per second.

 

[lipadj46]

I second the notion about sea sickness looking through a camera or scope. Unfortunately sea sickness meds usually make you drowsy (like an antihistamine). On the beta C mag, I don't know about their reliability I would test it a lot first. You may be better off with 25 round CMI mags from 44mag.com

http://www.44mag.com/products.asp?dept=1318

They are made by the USGI maker and only $25. After the stories you hear about Beta mags in Iraq I would be leary. Also not sure where you will get a 20" M1A off the shelf. SAI either makes a 16", 18" or 22". Sure you could cut them down but you may want to consider the full sized if you are talking hitting hulls at 600 meters

 

[Alleykat]

If you have an actual yacht, which I'd take to mean in excess of 40-45 feet, then you probably also have radar. If the radar is programmable to alert you when a vessel is within 1000 yds or so, you'd be ahead of the game. You can't just start shooting at a vessel that's approaching your vessel. How will you know how close to let the "pirates" get before you shift into your fantasy "Rambolista" mode??

 

[johnwilliamson062]

If the boat is over 40 feet, at under 12 kts- YOUR boats motion will be slow enough that you can easily compensate for it.

Well, with little experience in ocean boating I will say there are a lot of other considerations besides speed of the boat which would go into this on lakes and rivers. Hull shape, especially at the bow, how rough the water is, etc.
You will probably want the 24" for the range you are talking about and you may want to get a short carbine or shotgun if you have to retreat into the cabin, although things will not be pretty if you get to that point. Make sure your pilot knows basic evasive maneuvers and how to use the wake to swamp a zodiac or similar sized boat).

If I was a pirate in a light boat with very little cover a Saiga 12 loaded with buckshot would be my worst nightmare once I was within 100 yards, of course you'd have to let me get that close.

You wouldn't happen to have an opening for an assistant

 

[Keith10284]

The M1A is a decent rifle & a 4x ACOG sight makes for a nice rig. If I were you though, I'd get a 10x mil-dot scope (great for rangefinding) instead. A sidewheel focusing model wouldn't hurt either. As for the barrel, if it's a 20" your best bet would be a 1:10 twist & Springfield do make a range of M1A rifles with that twist rate in that barrel length. Personally, I'd go for the 22" barrel with the 1:11 twist as it's a better all rounder & has greater range. I'm no expert but that's just my opinion.

Hope this helps mate,

Keith