Marine corp training

[markj]

Nephew just got back from boot, went thru some good stuff he says. I gave him a GI .45 he is 19. Why can a man be in the service of our country, armed by our military, trained by them, but he cant go buy a handgun? or have a drink. Might be in the wrong place for this topic, just didnt make much sense to me. He missed expert by 3 points, got nervous he said. Shot expert all week tho, fastest time tearing down and rebuilding a m 16. Shot a Saw, 2 targets at a time. He has been hunting with me since he was 8.

1st rule of hunting he says is a good one for his line of work, fast quick kill he said thanks..... kinda hit me then. I helped raise a man there.

 

[ESI Agent]

I joined the Marines when I was 17 and was in the infantry but looking back regardless of training their is something to be said for age and maturity. Look back in your life and think of all the dumb things we do as young kids and 19 is still a kid. I think it's just about giving a person a few years to mature so they can make better decisions. Be safe.

 

[vox rationis]

Well maybe because if an 18-19 year old had enough sense to handle his booze and responsibly handle handguns without adult supervision, he'd also have too much sense to decide that assaulting an enemy pillbox with a K Bar in his teeth was a good idea

Don't listen to me, I'm just being facetious

 

[rb4browns]

Nephew just got back from boot, went thru some good stuff he says. I gave him a GI .45 he is 19. Why can a man be in the service of our country, armed by our military, trained by them, but he cant go buy a handgun? or have a drink. Might be in the wrong place for this topic, just didnt make much sense to me. He missed expert by 3 points, got nervous he said. Shot expert all week tho, fastest time tearing down and rebuilding a m 16. Shot a Saw, 2 targets at a time. He has been hunting with me since he was 8.

Same reason he can't get elected president or to the senate until a certain age. That he can join the Corps has no connection to drinking. Most 18-19 year olds are foolish and prone to doing stupid things without thinking through the consequences. Add alchohol to the mix and voila, you get lots of dead kids from drunk driving etc. Good for your nephew though, my Grandfather and Uncles were Marines and I was raised with my Grandpa just down the freeway from Camp Pendleton. Semper Fi.

 

[RJay]

Our laws and culture is based on English law and culture. Why was 21 chosen to be the " legal" age? Because in days of yore, it was figured at 21 you were big enough and strong enough to be able to wear a heavy suit of armor ( and hence be a man ). No kidding folks. The reason we have 12 jurors, one for each sigh of the zodiac, based on the old English system. Make any modern sense, no' but it's not going to changed in the near future. I went through the same thing, joined the army at 17, but couldn't legally drink until I was 21. However you could buy beer at the PX beer garden at 18, but I believe they've changed that also thanks to the do gooders.

 

[Frankyoz]

Well I can tell you after serving in the Corps after 9yrs and enlisting when I was 18, that your nephew will do way too much drinking without being 21. If he is anything like most Marines with nothing to do in the barracks. Sadly its probly the biggest reasons Marines go up for NJP. Anyway as far as buying weapons I whole heartly aggree, but I live in AZ and if you can reach the counter you can buy a gun here so. Respect your nephew and encourage him to steer away from the alchol until of age its a big career bump to get an NJP over underage drinking. ANd remember it wasnt too long ago that military personnel could drink underage on base, and look what trouble it got some Marines into and was a big embarrassment to the US as well.

 

[tegemu]

FYI it's Corps not Corp.

 

[Frankyoz]

Sorry bad habit but I think I have earned the right to add an extra s now and again

 

[markj]

Look back in your life and think of all the dumb things we do as young kids and 19 is still a kid.

Legal age when I was 19 was 19 I did alright, dont hardly drink myself niether does my nephew. Maybe I should not have added that as it wasnt my primary focus, his ability to purchase a weapon was. So I gave him one a GI .45

I worked in Dads bar 6 years or more, saw plenty of stupid, most done by mid aged guys and they sure did get hurt in a hurry.

 

[ESI Agent]

I've worked bars for years and the majority of problems came from guys in their early 20's. I compleated a few courses in criminalogy at Calif State University Long Beach and they mentioned at about the age of 24 criminal conduct seems to stop or is greatly reduced. I believe it's because we focus on making a living and thinking about our futer. Anyway hope your Marine stays safe and you bought him a nice firearm. Sempri fi

 

[Tanzer]

Nephew just got back from boot, went thru some good stuff he says. I gave him a GI .45 he is 19. Why can a man be in the service of our country, armed by our military, trained by them, but he cant go buy a handgun? or have a drink.

I hear ya' don't think otherwise...
Just look at it as another trail he has to go through. He'll face many trials in the military, and have to put up with a whole bunch of BS in civilian life, so this is his "sit back and don't complain even though you have the right to" period.
You get trained to push your limits, then go into a world (many careers) where they'll call you arrogant for speaking the truth;
Boss; "So, what do you think of the new security system?"
Employee: "It stinks. My Labrador retriever could defeat it, and the cost will mean you'll be laying off around Christma......ER, I think it has advantages and disadvantages....."
Let him lear to bite his tongue without getting red in the face. He'll need that skill.
Look up your local school's emergency plan, especially code "red" (intruder in the building). Now ask yourself: "If I were a teacher with one iota of tactical sense, could I even practice this procedure, much less implement it?"
Don't mean to rant, but these are just a few real world examples.
Hang in there.

 

[Al Norris]

The subject is better suited to L&P.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Well, there is a huge difference in maturity between the average 18-year-old and the average 21-year-old (and obviously it doesn't stop there). Part of me thinks it might be a self-reinforcing problem; by not allowing kids any responsibility before 18 (except driving, and in some states even that is limited) we ensure that they won't be responsible at 18...so we push things back to later ages like 21, so there's not need to ensure they're responsible by 18 and blah blah blah.

But that might just be rambling.

Anyway, point being the maturity difference. Obviously there will always be some 18-year-olds (or even 12-year-olds) who are more mature than some 21-year-olds (or 40-year-olds)...but the law doesn't do subjective well, so we get arbitrary ages instead.

I do think it's a bit silly, especially in the case of military service. I honestly would like to see an exception there (and the law does do well-outlined and defined exceptions well); in fact, I know that there is at least one Army post (Fort Bliss) where soldiers can drink at 18. They decided they'd rather have the guys cause whatever ruckus they'd cause on-post and have the MPs take care of it than have it happen across the border (Juarez) and have the Federales (or whoever) handle it. I believe there may be at least one Marine Corps station that does the same, for the same reason.

Which, to me, says there is no magical reason that "underage" soldiers on other posts will suddenly start tearing down the barracks or setting tanks on fire if we let them drink...that doesn't seem to happen at Fort Bliss, and it isn't exactly a minor post.

So yeah, stupid. Also silly that we'll send a kid over to a foreign country at 18, hand him a weapon and ammunition (and the authority to use it) and yet that same kid can't own a handgun here in the states. "Parental" supervision (from NCOs) is one factor, but then again it's not like my NCOs were with me 24/7 overseas...but my weapon (and ammo) sure was. Not to mention that there are plenty of NCOs in both the Army and Marines that are still under 21.

I'll stop rambling now.

 

[scottz0369]

Tell your nephew welcome to the club!
The questions you posed are the same ones I've heard since I joined the Corps (when Reagan was President). No good answer, really. We're still subject to federal and state laws wherever we may be stationed. However, the Marines recently changed thier policy regarding overseas drinking-it's whatever the local drinking age is. So in Okinawa, a Marine over 19 (maybe it's 18-can't exactly recall) can go out and buy a Kirin or an Orion (Oki vets know this beer!) without drama.
Nice call on the 1911. We shot those when I was in Boot Camp, but switched to the Beretta soon thereafter. Looks like they won't re-adopt the .45 before I retire next year, but your nephew may see them.
Tell him to be safe, and to look me up-I'll be back in 29 Palms this spring!

Semper Fi
Scott
MSgt USMC
Somewhere in Iraq

 

[theinvisibleheart]

fallacy

I have met very mature 16 year old and very immature sixty
year old. Note also that many of the Founding Fathers were thrust
into position of very great responsibility at very early age (before
20 years of age or just after), and they rose up to occasion. Most of
the people who fought in WWII were teens or just barely out of
teens...yet they did their job very responsibly, in some ways, much
more so than older soldiers serving in today's military.

Maturity is a function of culture, family, individual choice, and
demands of one's position.

While back, there was a case of a young ofc who went on shooting rampage.
However, in regards to that case, the ofc forgot what most children
have learned by the time they are 8 years old. You don't go around
hurting other people no matter what. I also believe he engaged in
mass public shooting because the victims were likely to be unarmed.

Data regarding domestic violences shows that perpetrators who engage
in it is less likely to engage in it when they know their
ex-girlfriends, ex-wives, etc. are armed and likely to inflict harm on
them if they persist in their act of domestic violences.

Even in crimes of passion or when the perpetrator is in a state of
temporary insanity, they do understand pain and suffering that result
from injury and death, and try to prolong their life as much as
possible.

Lott did a study of mass public shooting and he found out that people
who engage in it choose places where guns are prohibited like PO,
public school, etc.

There are also cases of department veterans, older than 25 years old, who
have lost their temper and engaged in excessive violence becuz they
knew they can get away with it.

Even immature people react to threats of force...esp. when potential
victims are armed.

Fiat specifying age as the limiting factor doesn't make sense to me.
By that example, Asians should be highly desired since statistically
speaking, their predisposition to violent crime is very low (but take the
example of VA Tech shooter). Blacks should be precluded automatically
since they have one of the highest predisposition to violent crimes due to
highest percentage of dysfunctional family.


--J

 

[theinvisibleheart]

FederalistPatiot.US excerpt:

"Children who grow up with their fathers do far better -- emotionally, educationally, physically, every way we can measure -- than children who do not," notes Institute for American Values president David Blankenhorn. "This conclusion holds true even when differences of race, class and income are taken into account. The simple truth is that fathers are irreplaceable in shaping the competence and character of their children. ... [The absence of fathers] from family life is surely the most socially consequential family trend of our era."

Indeed it is.

Here are some sobering statistics: According to the CDC, DoJ, DHHS and the Bureau of the Census, 63% of teen suicides, 70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions, 71% of high-school dropouts, 75% of children in chemical-abuse centers, 80% of rapists, 85% of youths in prison, 85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders, and 90% of homeless and runaway children are children from fatherless homes. In fact, children born to unwed mothers are ten times more likely to live in poverty as children with fathers in the home.

"[The causal link between fatherless children and crime] is so strong that controlling for family configuration erases the relationship between race and crime and between low income and crime," notes social researcher Barbara Dafoe Whitehead. More to the point, a counselor at a juvenile-detention facility in California, which has the nation's highest juvenile-incarceration rate, protested, "[If] you find a gang member who comes from a complete nuclear family, I'd like to meet him. ... I don't think that kid exists."

"Maturity does not come with age, but with the accepting of responsibility for one's actions," writes Dr. Edwin Cole. "The lack of effective, functioning fathers is the root cause of America's social, economic and spiritual crises."

 

[Alleykat]

It's perfectly o.k., in many states, for an 18-yr-old to buy and own a handgun, in a private sale. When you throw the U.S. Congress into the mix, you get influences from the big, urban, sissy states. Of course, an 18-yr-old should be able to buy a handgun and ammo from an FFL. Of course, one should be able to buy a handgun in a state other than one's home state. Of course there should never have been, nor should there ever be, restrictions on mag capacity.

It's the U.S. Congressional Dummies, guys. It really is just as simple as that. In some states (Indiana comes to mind) one can get a concealed carry permit @ 18.

 

[Buzzcook]

You trust your nephew with a handgun and the law doesn't.
I paid for my first handgun but my parents had to buy it.
The law doesn't have the time or resources to judge each minor as to whether they are mature enough to own a handgun.

As soon as your nephew gets to Afghanistan or Iraq start sending him care packages. Hot sauce and wet wipes are always big hits for guys on the line.

For people without family serving, this is a good idea.
http://www.uso.org/whatwedo/specialprograms/operationusocarepackage/

I hope your nephew returns safe and sound.

 

[ajaxinacan]

Inactive Marine chiming in. (SGT/USMC 1988-1996)

Congratulations to your nephew.

I remember when I was in his shoes. It may be better that he doesn't have any guns while he lives in the barracks his first few years. They want you to store them in the armory, which is always a little iffy. A friend of mine had an Uzi dismantled by armory personnel who couldn't put it back together.

Anyway, a good 1911 is a great homecoming present. Lots of letters from home is what he will need most for a while. Garrison duty is boring.

 

[nemoaz]

Be careful of buying a firearm from an FFL FOR A PERSON UNDER 21. You can buy it and perhaps lone it to the person until he turns 21, or buy a firearm from a private citizen (in most states) and give it to the person. However, buying it for the person from an FFL may be considered a shill transaction and just as unlawful as buying one to give to a felon.