Mandate For Liberty - Why Christian Fundamentalists Are Good For Your Freedom

MicroBalrog

New member
Mandate For Liberty - Why Christian Fundamentalists Are Good For Your Freedom

Surely by now all of you have heard about Exodus Mandate – a Christian religious group that wants to take children out of government schools and into homeschooling environments. As far as I can see, the Mandate is as close to the mainstream media's definition of the Evil Theocratic Religious Right as can be. For example, they don't really like gay people. According to Wikipedia, "The group is active within the Southern Baptist Convention and has introduced a succession of anti-lesbian and anti-gay initiatives within the Convention."
The author of this short article, on the other hand, is a Jewish-born libertarian bisexual agnostic who's engaged to a German-born atheist lady. One would think there's no real reason such a person would endorse Exodus Mandate – and yet, I can say with all proper conviction, the Exodus Mandate is a very good thing for the cause of restoring individual liberty in America and in the world entire.
To understand why anybody, regardless of religion, should cheer Exodus Mandate for it's efforts, one should read the original blueprint for the institution of statist oppression – the Communist Manifesto.
In that work, among many interesting things, Marx and Engels outline ten measures that need to be accomplished politically in order to bring about the dictatorship of the Proletariat (they believed that would later transcend into a perfect stateless society). In any event, they have listed not the definition of this future state, but ten measures, that, if introduced, would inevitably lead to it's formation. In their very words:

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production. [The Communist Manifesto, Chapter II: Proletarians and Communists]

In this text, Marx and Engels provide us with a clever insight which applies to all systems of government. You do not need, they say, to topple the regime outright to achieve the revolution you wish – merely introduce new institutions which mandate a new kind of relationship between the individual, society, and the state, and, as the new system of relation asserts itself, it spreads out to all sectors of public, and eventually private life. Change the way people commute, work, and teach their children, and your revolution is assured. It is interesting that Marx has mentioned, as the tenth plank of it's platform, 'Free education for all children in public schools.'
So if this is true – and there are a group of measures that, if accomplished, achieve the continuous growth of government and its increased intrusion into private life, would there not be a group of measures that would, if introduced, cause a great
decrease of it's intrusion? One is reminded of Neil Smith's maxim: When the enemy screams "Foul!" the loudest, you know you're doing him the most damage. Those who help him scream are also the enemy.
When education is public and control of it belongs to the state, the natural tendency is for it to be used to teach the values of whatever dominant majority happens to be in control of the government. In America, this means taking children to Earth Day rallies and having them chant 'they want to drill our parks for oil that will pollute our sea and soil' or that 'emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology' is 'racist'. And the longer that this public mandatory education system persists, the more people are assured that their civilization cannot survive without it – nevermind the greatest achievements of civilization – parliamentary democracy, the concept of individual liberty, the printing press, the lightbulb, the automobile – were given to us by people who never saw the inside of a public school. And with government in control of our schools – can you guess what this will do to individual liberty in twenty years? A century?
Further – as Marx understood – it's the 'natural interest' (if it wants to remain existent) of private schooling and homeschooling to defend it's raison d'etre, the 'bourgeois state of mind' – the ideas of individual liberty and private property. Granted, there are for sure socialist homeschoolers, but in general, it's likely the supporters of state control of education would not take their children from these schools.
No, Jerry Falwell is not by any means an advocate of personal liberty in the Neil Smith or H.L. Mencken mod – and I would not use his programs on my children – but it is to be granted that he's no statist either. To quote the man himself: "I hope to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we don't have public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them."
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we want Mr. Falwell to win. Because whne people are taken out of the government's schools – especially to environments that 'present free-enterprise economics without apology and point out the dangers of Communism, socialism, and liberalism to the well-being of people across the globe' – the NEA and DOE lose power. Because parents who don't have their children in public schools will not vote for increased Federal control over the curricula, and they will not vote for more NEA budgets. And their children, who learn about free-enterprise economics, will not vote for more FDA regulation and DEA powers and EEOC controls.
A system of education that Mr. Falwel and Ray Moore envision cannot exist but in an environment based around individual choice and free markets, and Mr. Falwell knows it full well. And when this happens, this will – as such things do – bring about more and more individual freedom – much more then Mr. Falwell and the theocrats around him want, perhaps. Certainly more then we have now.
As such, I suggest that Jerry Falwell, Ray Moore and the Christian Right are our unwitting friends. And as such, I recommend that if a general Libertarian Manifesto is to be written – a practical, non-Rothbard Manifesto to include all small government advocates – it is to have as it's first plank the words:


1.Education of all children in private schools or homeschooling environments.

Et ceterum censeo Department of Education delenda essem.


Short Bibliography

1. Marx, Engels, "The Communist Manifesto"
2. L. Neil Smith, "Lever Action"
3. Vin Suprinowycz, "Send in the Waco Killers"
4. Seattle Public Schools website, Definitions of Racism
5. http://www.theocracywatch.org/schools2.htm
 

JMag

New member
I'm a bit out of the loop on this thread not having researched the topic. However, does the author intend "Ray" Moore or Roy Moore, the Alabama justice running for governor?
 

JMag

New member
Thanks. Told you I was out of the loop on that one.

The "mandate" may be a hot topic out there at present. The "issue" of homeschooling by Christian folks is certainly not a new one.
 

Cowman

New member
As I understand it, any parent can take their kid out of public school and homeschool them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How do you mandate such a thing without violating parental rights?
 

MicroBalrog

New member
THe "Exodus Mandate' is a group promoting homeschooling. The mandate they refer to is one derived from a moral authority, I undeertsand, not a legal/politcal mandate.
 

Cowman

New member
Well I will say this, homeschooled kids and kids who have gone to private school tend to be better educated and overall come off as more intelligent.

Unfortunately the tradeoff seems to be that when they hit the real world(or college) they either go nuts and get themselves into trouble or they get taken advantage of.

I think what we need to do is some major re-thinking of public schools. First we need to concentrate more on the academics and less on socialization and whatnot. Political beliefs, religious beliefs, moral values, etc mostly come from home and a bit from friends. Schools need to teach reading, writing, arithmatic, and the sciences. The second thing we need to re-think are our academic standards. The bar needs to be raised and we need to stop catering to the lowest common denominator. Only pass the students who deserve it. Some kids will get left behind, it's tough, it's unfair, it's life and people need a good dose of that now and then. Besides, academic success is not the only road to achievment in life... it's the most reliable road but not the only one.
 

Handy

Moderator
The existance of the Christian Right in America is wonderful, as is the existance of every group that defines us as a country that doesn't define citizenry by race, creed or any other "group" definer.

However, it doesn't cut both ways. Americans need to be on the guard for the groups that are so convinced of their perfection of vision that they wish to usurp and undermine the very society that allows them to exist freely in the first place.


Homeschooling? Whatever floats your boat. No one that I personally know that was homeschooled has anything to brag about, except a rather limited social repetoire, but I'm sure it can be done competently.

Public schools can also provide excellent educations, and often do. It would be nice if, as we allow or even help homeschoolers, we figured out what the good public schools do right and try and pass that on.

Public education, like a public postal system and public libraries, is a great boost and anchor point that offers children the opportunity to not fall victim to their parent's folleys and ineptitude. This helps insure that basic function in a free society isn't a product of class and wealth, but a general background all citizens come to adulthood with.


Feel free to teach your kids yourself, buy all your books and use FedEx - but don't expect a tax rebate because you refuse to participate in the some of the public infrastructure that keeps our culture on an even keel.
 

MicroBalrog

New member
Public schooling keeps modern society afloat?

So? Modern society has gun control, overreaching regulations and progressive income taxes. That's not a good thing, and I don't want it to be around.

There's no need, Handy, for the state to have a monopoly on education. A far better way to handle the problem of the poor not getting any (which was not the case before public education, but I could argue is the case in some societies) is to give the education budgets to the parents and let them decide where to put it.

There's no reason to assume modern society can't exist without a state monopoly on the schools (except for the 'rich and elite'). As a matter of fact, modern society would be titanically better off without that particular Marxian idea.
 

mete

New member
Public schooling worked well in the past but it collapsed in the '60s. That was due to the fine efforts of the teachers union [NEA] and the Dep't of Education !! The Dep't of Ed was formed to provide nationwide standards for education. We now have NO standards.:mad:
 

Handy

Moderator
Micro,

Quote me where I suggested there should be or is a MONOPOLY on education by the government. In fact, I said more than once that you should be able to choose.

You seem to be confusing my point that public education is an important democratic institution that shouldn't be abolished with the suggestion that it should be the ONLY source of education. I didn't say that, imply that or believe that.

Clear?
 

MicroBalrog

New member
Here is my point, restated to avoid confusion:

1. I believe we should ensure everybody gets educated.

2. I believe there's no reason that the government should have control over the content of education. The whole principle is only good if you believe all children ought to 'kinda vaguely conform' to a given set of values, which one tries to push through the education system. If you want to have freedom, you must not have central control of the educational content. Yes, it means society will become more varied. This is precisely the point.
 

Handy

Moderator
Education does not primarily teach values. Education imparts skills and information about language, science, math, history and a host of other easily defineable and concrete pieces of KNOWLEDGE.

Values come from every person your children interact with - most especially you, the parent. Values need to be critically examined then adopted or rejected based on the young person's judgement of the information they have available to make decisions.


Educational guidelines have little to do with any sort of value indoctrination, and everything to do with imparting knowledge and the ability to think critically. A parent who shields his child from certain subjects is not protecting his children's values - he is merely handicapping their ability to make value judgements by withholding knowledge and the ability to think.


By all means, teach your children MORE than what our society considers the core subjects of primary education. Just don't try to tell me we make better citizens when we know LESS.
 

Harley Quinn

Moderator
They play to many mind games for me

I believe you are a lot more free if you have the ability to make choices and be a freethinker. Fundamentalist don't allow that . Not good.

HQ
 

FMB42

New member
I believe you are a lot more free if you have the ability to make choices and be a freethinker. Fundamentalist don't allow that.

I agree Harley.

Mandate For Liberty -Why Your Freedom is Good For Christian Fundamentalists.

There would be no Christian Fundamentalists if not for our freedom.
 

steelheart

Moderator
I believe you are a lot more free if you have the ability to make choices and be a freethinker. Fundamentalist don't allow that .
WRONG.

One of the tenets of fundamentalist Christianity is that man has free will. Man has free will to think as he chooses, live as he chooses, go to Heaven or Hell as he chooses.

The reason the world is such a mess today is because of the arrogance of man - exercising his free will, man has chosen to ignore God and chart his own course.

We all see how well that has worked out...
 

Marko Kloos

New member
If they truly lived by that tenet, they wouldn't keep trying to legislate their particular morality for everyone else around them. Free choice and free will do not mean squat if you don't have the opportunity to make use of them.

Prime example...liquor laws. The local Baptists are in the majority, so they pass teetotaling laws, which means I can't buy liquor on Sundays...and in some counties, not at all. If the Fundamentalists truly believed what you claim, then they'd live their own morality by not buying booze, and let other people decide for themselves whether to drink or not. Instead, they prevent everyone from buying booze, Baptist or not. How does that fit in with your claim?

The reason the world is such a mess today is because of the arrogance of man - exercising his free will, man has chosen to ignore God and chart his own course.

We all see how well that has worked out...

I'd say it worked out better than the period of absolute faith, staggering ignorance and boundless cruelty known as the Dark Ages. We've gone to the moon, found cures for all kinds of nasty diseases, and improved the human lifespan threefold in a few hundred years. I will stick with the course laid out by reason and rational self-interest. I also have no problem with your right to worship whatever deity you choose...I'd just appreciate it if the fundamentalists would stop trying to legislate their faith into law.

As such, I suggest that Jerry Falwell, Ray Moore and the Christian Right are our unwitting friends.

Don't kid yourself. They're not friends of freedom, least of all religious freedom. The only reason they dislike public schools these days is because they are no longer in control of them. If they had their way in public schools, and we had mandatory school prayer, Creationist teachings, and Bible classes, they'd be stalwart defenders of the system,
 

mthalo

New member
The reason the world is such a mess today is because of the arrogance of man - exercising his free will, man has chosen to ignore God and chart his own course. The reason the world is such a mess today is because of the arrogance of man - exercising his free will, man has chosen to ignore God and chart his own course.

It could be said that with all the diseases that affect innocent children, wars, genocides and such, that God has chosen to ignore man.

I would like once, just once, for God to provide even the slightest bit of scientific evidence of his existence. To date, there is simply nothing that does that. Should I believe in God just because some 2000 year old writings tell me I should?
My whole take on all religion is summed up best by paraphrasing Mark Twain. Faith is something we use when we want to believe in something we know not to be true.

At least today, I need not fear for my life as the result of an inquisition. Back in the good old days, I would have been burned at the stake for my statement.
 

invention_45

New member
The reason the world is such a mess today is because of the arrogance of man - exercising his free will, man has chosen to ignore God and chart his own course.

<blink>

OK, I did read that right. The reason the world is such a mess is that people have exercised their free will, which God gave them. But this is arrogant? How dare them, using a God-given tool !

I'm left with a choice here. Either God is all-powerful and all-knowing but just mean, or he's not really all-powerful and all-knowing, otherwise we wouldn't be in the mess we're in. Seems to me there's no other logical choice.

Or maybe the world's not as bad as you are making it out to be.
 
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