Mall Shooting Tacoma WA. "AK-47"

Sulaco2

New member
At about 1200 this afternoon in the Tacoma City Mall a 20 year old entered the mall and began shooting "randomly" at people and a cell phone stand. Reports say six people were hit only apparently three had serious injuries and at this point only one is listed in serious condition. The shooter took three hostages but later allowed them to go free. At about 1600 the Tacoma SWAT team convinced him to surrender and it was over.
This is a bad thing for a lot of reasons not just the near Christmas implications but politically for gun owners.
The witness are calling the rifle he used an "AK-47" and of course the media is screaming Assault Rifle! :barf:
I live nearby and am now reconsidering my carry off duty which is normally a Kahr 9 or .40. Will this happen again? Don't know. But I do know it is more likely now in the near term with the heavy news coverage by a copy cat nut case and if I was to be on scene of a mall shooting AGAIN, as I have been before in the City Of Federal Way seven years ago, I would want the best I can carry. Comments?
 

Bobarino

New member
just saw an interview of a CCW'ers wife on NWCN. apparently there was a CCW'er on the scene at the time of the shooting. when he heard the shots, he had his wife, daughter and a store employee hit the floor, drew his weapon and backed his family out of the store with a bead on the shooter but didn't engage, apparently because of other people still around the shooter at the time. my girlfried works at Macy's at the Tacoma Mall. i'm extraordinarily glad she had toady off.

Sulaco,

in my opinion, Kahr's are excellent weapons but lacking in capacity. i very much like the K40 but opted instead for a doublestack compact with a spare mag weakside. that gives be up to 25 rounds depending on which mags in use. 22 rounds at the minimum though. you never know if you may have to hold a position for a while. all those scenarios in the tactics forums that people roll their eyes at played out nearly verbatim today in my GF's workplace. you just never know.

Bobby
 

AndrewTB

Moderator
LOL wait till black friday! Im almost afraid to go out shopping at 4 in the morning stampededs or what not but it may be worth it!!! Ive seen some deals I like.
 

BobK

New member
Stick with your Kahr. The guy had an assault rifle. No matter what you carry, your already outgunned if the bad guy has a rifle. It would be a different story if you could conceal a rifle or shotgun. But since that isn't realistic, focus on tactics. Rule #1: Have a gun.

I just happened to walk into a gunshop in Kent as this story hit the news. I was at the Tacoma Mall yesterday! Talked to a guy at the gunshop who was on the phone with his wife when the shooting started. She was at the mall and asked what to do. He told her to find the nearest exit and run.
 

Sulaco2

New member
What kind of double stack Bobarino? Keeping in mind my boss don't like single actions...Am thinking of looking for a BHP or other in .40 (DAO if possible) if I can find one. Any other types come to mind?
Comments about the rifle vs. handgun are spot on, but the difference between a CCW and a cop are what their jobs are. The CCW's first job is safety of his family and self. The LE's is safety of civilians but if that means ignoring the wounded and engaging the shooter then so be it until the danger is over and the threat neutralized. This would it seems to me call for two different types of carry for most, but the comment about holding position is well received!

OH JHC can you beleave this!!!! The AP in the middle of the rampage and hostage drama phones INTO the store where the hostages are being held and wants to talk to them!!! Damn MSM
 

Bobarino

New member
Sulaco,

i opted for an H&K USP Compact in .40S&W with a spare mag. i have 10 and 12 round mags but the 12 rounders have an extended finger rest which makes them less concealable so i usaully go with two ten rounders (which actuall hold 11) so i have 22 rounds on me minimum.

not likely that ever need it but just look at today. you just never know. i'm at the mall about once a month, either shopping or visiting the GF for lunch or whatever. some of the oldest cliche's hold true. i'd rather have it and not need it that need it and not have it.

Bobby
 

deadin

Moderator
So far the news reports haven't said what kind of weapon was used other an
"assualt rifle". Witnesses report hearing a "popping" sound. I would think that an AK in an enclosed mall would be a little louder. I wonder if he was using a duded-up 10/22 or something of the same ilk?

Of course any rifle used in a crime = "assualt rifle" = the dreaded AK-47.

Dean
 

Sulaco2

New member
+1 Deadin, even the Seattle Times this morning does not say what type of rifle and if it was an semi auto AK style they would be all over it. Did note that after his last felony conviction he was "ordered" not to have any weapons by the judge.....and a friend of the shooters is saying he was "twitchy" and had a drug problem as well as being a "gun nut". Joy.
 

garrettwc

New member
Interesting comments from the people exiting the mall.

Two ladies, obviously agitated running away from the mall chased by camera crew-

Lady #1 - out of breath, very excited, speaking in short bursts "shots... screaming...blood everywhere....I ran"

Lady #2 - also excited and mad "I hope the they (the police) cap the son of a ---, and don't waste taxpayer money on a trial."

Odd how the attitude of the sheep changes when they realize it's there turn at the slaughterhouse.
 

Sulaco2

New member
My favorite comment was on Channel 2 NW News last night where the chirpy female news reader said in effect how horrible it was that the victims of the shooting or witnesses in the mall were forced to "re-live" the terrible experience.....
then cut to 10 or 15 on the street interviews with panicked witnesses with channel 2 cameras jammed in their face. :barf:
 

czc3513

New member
I heard about this on fox news.
I was suprised to hear the reporter say, "semi automatic" and not, "automatic".
He even repeated it. Its nice to know that there is someone in that field of work that is not completely gun ignorant.
 

PAINTRAIN

New member
I have started taking concealed carry for granted

but lately the lunacy around me is starting to hit me again. I had a close incounter with a probable terrorist awile back and now this.

I used to carry my .357 scandium a lot but these days I need to up the ante.

I think I'll try to carry my Sig or Glock a lot more now. It's sick and getting sicker. :barf:
 

Minator

New member
not to get off the subject or to be a troll but everytime there is a shooting liberal media always describes it as an "assault weapon" ive found a website a while ago on someones thread where a shooting with a lever action winchester and the news anchor was describing it as an assault type weapon, not to undercut this mall shooting but ever since the awb lifted media has made every effort to emphasize all shootings where the result of assault class weapons

tatics and everything are essential but if someones engaging you with with any high cap mag rifle and you only have a ten shot mag the only real tactic you have is to run or put your head in between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye the only response on a handgun that you could use for ccw and be on the same playing feild as a rifle would be the new FN fiveseven they have a special at cdnn where you can get them for 800 dollars the funny thing is ppl are getting rid of them because the ammo is expensive yet domestic manufacters are beggining to make the round so soon it will be dramaticly cheaper and the round defeats all soft armor, and most plate ,it also has a longer range than most handguns theoretically no overpenetration due to it being a round that tumbles once inside.
 

Sulaco2

New member
Well the round they make in this country will have to be to the BATF specs and will never be up to the EU or NATO standards so that it can't defeat body armor. Thats been the rub with the 57 the ammo is illegal as designed for it within the U.S.

Please take note that the only person still in Hosp. from the mall shooting is a CCW and according to the Seattle Times this morning drew against the rifleman. Bank America is running a fund for him if you are wishing to help him.
 

azredhawk44

Moderator
Minator..

So, someone with a 20rd FN fiveseven with "home-rolled" ammo as hot as he can get it may have a chance...

This pistol is kinda long, at 8.2 inches. I don't know width or height, but with a 20rd mag it must be at least 6 inches tall.

So .223 will pierce soft body armor, but will hand-loaded 5.7x28 do so within 50 yards? Did you suggest that the factory loads would not be up to snuff in order to pacify the BATFE, but a handloader could obtain more power?

I imagine this gun would be reasonably light due to the small bullet caliber, lighter than a 1911 clone. Maybe somebody could carry it discretely.
 

TheeBadOne

Moderator
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Shooting victim at mall drew gun, family says

The man who was critically wounded during Sunday's shooting rampage at Tacoma Mall drew a pistol and confronted the gunman before he was cut down by gunfire, his family said Tuesday.

Brendan "Dan" McKown was delivering a bank deposit for a mall gift store when gunshots scattered shoppers at around noon. McKown was among six people hit.

Police say Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, of Tacoma, marched through the mall shooting randomly at shoppers before taking four hostages in a Sam Goody music store. He surrendered about four hours later.

Witnesses told McKown's family that he was shot after he pulled his own handgun during the shooting.

"Our understanding is that Dan drew his weapon and confronted the gunman," his stepmother, Beverly McKown, said during a news conference Tuesday at Tacoma General Hospital.

McKown, 38, was shot twice in the abdomen and may have suffered permanent paralysis due to spinal damage, said hospital spokesman Todd Kelley. McKown was being brought out of a medically induced coma Tuesday. The other shooting victims were treated at hospitals and released.

Tacoma police confirmed that McKown had a gun, but spokesman Mark Fulghum said there was no evidence that gunshots were fired by anyone other than Maldonado, who faces numerous criminal charges. Police also could not confirm whether there was a confrontation between the two men before McKown was shot.

Maldonado is being held in the Pierce County Jail on $2 million bail.

McKown's father, Roger McKown, said his son has a permit to carry a handgun, which he did not out of fear but because "he always believed in protecting people."

"I'm proud of my son," Roger McKown said. "I think he's a hero."

McKown, a Tacoma resident who is an assistant manager at Excalibur Cutlery and Gifts at Tacoma Mall, was on his way to make a bank deposit when he was shot, his father and stepmother said.

The McKowns, of Yelm, Thurston County, described their bachelor son as a look-alike of late-night TV host Conan O'Brien, with a great sense of humor, a passion for photography and a deep Christian faith.

They said that while they are worried he may be paralyzed for life, they are certain McKown's faith will sustain him.

The Dan McKown Medical Fund, set up to help offset McKown's expenses, has been established through the Bank of America. Donations may be made at any Bank of America branch, the family said.

The McKowns, who are active in prison ministries in part because Roger McKown spent some time behind bars years ago for his own "bad choices," said they have been praying nonstop for their son and for Maldonado.

"We are not angry," said Beverly McKown. "We are praying for Dan and we are praying for this boy. God is a healer."

Police on Tuesday were still trying to determine how Maldonado, a convicted felon, had obtained the two weapons he allegedly carried into the mall. The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was helping Tacoma detectives trace the history of the weapons, Fulghum said.

Meanwhile, authorities responded to reports that Maldonado's actions may have been related, in part, to harassment he claimed he received at the hands of police during a youth summer camp several years ago.

While he was holding hostages in the music store, Maldonado demanded a personal apology from three police officers he said had humiliated him as a child, Tacoma police said. Joe Hudson, one of the four hostages, said Maldonado claimed he had been humiliated at the summer camp and treated "like a prisoner."

One officer named by Maldonado was asked to come to the scene of Sunday's shooting spree and did arrive at the mall but never spoke to the Tacoma man, said Pierce County deputy prosecutor Phil Sorensen.

Maldonado wanted an apology for being made to sing at a summer youth camp run by law-enforcement volunteers, Sorensen said. "Apparently, one thing you do [at camp] is sing a song and, apparently, that didn't go over too well," he said. "That was his recitation of what the issue was."

According to charging papers filed by Sorensen, Maldonado claimed "he had suffered humiliation and difficulties during his childhood and that recent emotional events and a desire to want to be 'heard' led ... to the shooting." It was unclear what other events in Maldonado's life may have led up to the shooting.

Tiffany Robison, who dated Maldonado for about six months, said Maldonado told her the same story.

"It upset him a lot, but I don't know why it did," she said of the summer-camp incident. "There's nothing else to it — the whole situation just really upset him," she said.

For more than 10 years, Pierce County sheriff's Detective Ed Troyer was a counselor at the weeklong Law Enforcement Youth Camp, held every year since the 1980s at the Sunset Lake Camp in eastern Pierce County.

Officers each brought three or four youngsters, usually runaways or kids from disadvantaged homes who otherwise wouldn't get a chance to go to summer camp, he said.

Maldonado was 12 when he attended the camp in 1997 and became the first kid in the camp's history to be sent home early, Troyer said. "He cried and cried from the moment he arrived. He refused to participate, and he wanted to go home," he said. On the second day of camp, Troyer said, Maldonado tried to run away.

"He was so disruptive and he was scaring the other kids, so we had to bring him home," Troyer said.

As for being made to sing, Troyer said everybody — including police officers — had to sing at camp, but never by themselves. In fact, the cook wouldn't let anyone into the dining hall unless they sang for their meals, he said.

Sorensen said "it's kind of a stretch" to think something that happened to Maldonado in the fifth grade could have precipitated Sunday's violence.


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TheeBadOne

Moderator
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Mall victim held fire at ‘kid’

Brendan “Dan” McKown said Monday that he briefly drew his gun on Tacoma Mall shooting suspect Dominick S. Maldonado, but he’s not sure Maldonado saw it.
He could have shot Maldonado, McKown said, but hesitated.

From his bed in Tacoma General Hospital, McKown told The News Tribune what he saw and did during the Nov. 20 mall shootings.

McKown, 38, said he carried a gun and even trained for situations where he could keep innocent people from getting hurt.

But the situation in the mall was just too surreal to fully comprehend, he said: A young man wearing a baseball cap turned backward strolling through the mall in white tennis shoes.

It looked like he could just as easily have been carrying a guitar, McKown said, instead of a semi-automatic rifle.

“I’m looking at this guy,” McKown said. “He’s a kid. I would have had to shoot him in the head.”

McKown just wasn’t ready for that. It’s not easy to shoot someone in the head, McKown said. McKown also didn’t want to get in the way of the police if they were handling the situation, and he knew he could get in trouble for brandishing a weapon in the mall.

McKown was struck by as many as five bullets, leaving his left leg paralyzed. He has about 10 percent movement in his right leg, said hospital spokesman Todd Kelley. Five other people wounded that day were treated and released from area hospitals.

During an interview Monday, McKown, a standup comic, was in good spirits. He had people gathered around his bed laughing on several occasions.

There was no self-pity or thirst for vengeance in his comments.

He choked up briefly several times in gratitude for the outpouring of love and support from friends, family, and community. He said it’s beyond his words to express his thanks for the fundraisers and other shows of support.

As for Maldonado, McKown said he hopes whatever prompted his actions will be addressed so that he can become a productive member of society, and that he would be willing to help.

McKown said he was on his way from the Excalibur cutlery store in the mall, where he is an assistant manager, to make a deposit at the other end of the mall.

He dropped into the Kits camera shop to say hello to a friend. He briefly stepped out of the store but circled back in because he wanted to greet someone else. He was walking to the front of the store to leave when “all hell broke loose.”

“I heard extremely powerful rifle shots. Boom! Boom! Boom! Very loud. People were diving for cover, running, screaming,” he said.

McKown knows guns, and knew what he heard was a high-caliber, military-style weapon. He even thought two people could be firing.

He walked to the front of the store to see what was going on, and took a defensive posture, crouched to one side in the store’s entrance. He had his gun out, but tucked it back into his belt, under his clothes, after thinking better of it.

Meanwhile, Maldonado walked past the Kits store.

“We had eye-to-eye contact the whole time,” McKown said. He is unsure if Maldonado saw his weapon.

McKown, standing, said to Maldonado, “I think you need to put that gun down, young man.”

McKown’s hand was back near his gun. Maldonado swung his barrel over and opened fired from the hip.

“Every one of his shots got some part of me,” McKown said.

McKown’s legs locked up with the impact of the first rounds and he started to topple over. McKown said Maldonado followed his body as he fell, firing.

The shooter was “expressionless, that was the strange thing. He was definitely cold,” McKown said.

As he felt the bullets enter his body, “I felt like an idiot,” McKown said. “I carried a gun to protect my fellow man,” but it hadn’t worked out that way.

After the firing ended, McKown said his first response was to crawl after Maldonado “so he didn’t get anyone else because I missed him,” but his friends at Kits stopped him.

McKown believes he was shot as he stood just inside the Kits entrance. He also thinks he was shot five times.

The whole encounter took only seconds, McKown said.

McKown lay on the floor for an hour while police negotiated with the suspect, who was holding several people hostage in a nearby store. He thought he was going to bleed to death.

The wounds felt like someone plunged a “flaming, molten fist” into McKown’s guts.

And he didn’t know if the gunman would be back.

Three people tended to him. His two Kits friends and another friend, a man who had come to the mall to see him and to make a purchase at Excalibur.

Roger McKown, Dan’s father, said the man had helped shield two children from Maldonado as he passed, and then rushed across the corridor into the store to help his son.

The McKown family identified the man as an Iraq war veteran. He told the Kits workers how to deal with McKown’s wounds.

Among other things, they used a teddy bear as a sponge to help stanch the flow of blood.

The veteran told Dan McKown that he had seen people hurt worse in the service, and that he was going to make it.

The veteran could not be reached for comment and his identity could not be confirmed Monday night.

Twenty, 30, 40 minutes passed, and McKown didn’t think he was going to make it. One of his Kits friends kept shouting at him not to fall asleep.

“I’m going to bleed to death here,” McKown remembers thinking. “I knew I was dying.”

After an hour, the Kits workers began to fold down the legs of a table to make a stretcher to carry McKown out of the mall, regardless of the risk.

But then the police arrived.

“I felt safe then,” McKown said.

Police took him to an ambulance.

Dan and his family said they heard from police that even before Maldonado met McKown, a person had already pulled a gun on Maldonado outside of the J.C. Penney store, but didn’t fire out of fear of hitting passers-by.

Roger McKown said Maldonado came to the mall with hundreds of rounds of ammo, aiming to take out as many people as possible, but the resistance he met changed his plans.

Tacoma police spokesman Mark Fulghum said investigators interviewed at least two people who were in the mall during the shooting who were carrying handguns. He didn’t know if either of them pointed a gun at Maldonado, he said.

“I’m not going to dispute it, he was there,” Fulghum said of Roger McKown’s account of another person with a gun. “I just can’t say for sure.”


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