The article about the Kurdish gunsmith-or Field Ordnance Service-got me to thinking about all the threads "Where can I find a part for..." and how with our modern tools, access to schematics, disassembly/reassembly instructions, shop manuals, etc. what cautions should we take in making our own out of bar stock or whatever is available ?
Making one's own parts
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I have made gun parts from scratch.Aside from some odd geometry and challenging setups,its just another part if you have the skills.
However! Look carefully at the job the part does.
Safety is critical.Not just any chunk of steel is good enough for many working parts.Think sears and hammer hooks or other parts where failure hurts or kills someone.
On critical parts,known steel and heat treat should be used.
With all due respect to the Kurds,their situation and priorities justify compromises we should probably avoid.
However! Look carefully at the job the part does.
Safety is critical.Not just any chunk of steel is good enough for many working parts.Think sears and hammer hooks or other parts where failure hurts or kills someone.
On critical parts,known steel and heat treat should be used.
With all due respect to the Kurds,their situation and priorities justify compromises we should probably avoid.
nemesiss45
New member
I have made a few parts an improvised a few parts before, but nothing critical to pressure holding... most critical part i tried to make was a disconnector in a mauser 1914, but it would either prevent the slide from closing fully or would still allow out of battery firing, so i scrapped that part and am looking for a replacement online.
On that same gun, the frame had a lug that mated with the slide which had been sheered of, so i tapped the slide and installed a stainless set screw which i had drilled out for the tail of the firing pin/cock indicator. It changes the function of the gun a little, and i have to remove the screw to disassemble it, but it was much better than the way i had found the gun.
On that same gun, the frame had a lug that mated with the slide which had been sheered of, so i tapped the slide and installed a stainless set screw which i had drilled out for the tail of the firing pin/cock indicator. It changes the function of the gun a little, and i have to remove the screw to disassemble it, but it was much better than the way i had found the gun.
g.willikers
New member
I've made non critical parts like ejectors, extractors, pin replacements and the the like.
And they actually worked.
But no attempts at the more important parts like trigger groups and such.
Not enough courage - or skill.
And they actually worked.
But no attempts at the more important parts like trigger groups and such.
Not enough courage - or skill.
In our gunsmithing repair I & II class, we were expected to make parts if they weren't available elsewhere. I had to make a hand for a Colt revolver and a center pin for an older S&W Victory. Someone else made a new safety for a C-96 Broomhandle. One useful thing we were taught was to make coil springs too (we were taught how to make leaf springs in another class). A few of us bought pliers to bend springs.
We have an exit exam too and it doesn't matter if you have a 4.0 GPA. Flunk the exit exam and you don't get a gunsmithing certificate (for those who don't want to take any outside electives) or an AA (for those who take the outside electives). In my class, a couple of people had to make firing pins or other parts for some guns that needed repair.
We have an exit exam too and it doesn't matter if you have a 4.0 GPA. Flunk the exit exam and you don't get a gunsmithing certificate (for those who don't want to take any outside electives) or an AA (for those who take the outside electives). In my class, a couple of people had to make firing pins or other parts for some guns that needed repair.
Thank God for drill rod and Brownell's spring assortments! One of the most common parts that have to be made is firing pins for auto pistols; they are usually simple to make, but can definitely lead to trouble or even danger if not done right. In my experience, overlong firing pins are one of the major reasons for all the warnings about dry firing rimfire guns. Plus overlong firing pins can cause a pistol to fire when a round is chambered, a very dangerous condition.
Jim
Jim
We make parts all the time. Some are simple, some are complex, but virtually all can be made with a mill and lathe. How do you think they made them to begin with? It's a question of need: are the parts vital or unavailable? If commercially available, buy them. If not, make them.
Dixie Gunsmithing
Moderator Emeritus
About all small parts can be made, even the complicated designs, but there comes a time when the part will cost more than the gun is worth in man hours to set up and make it. It's really according to the part, but firing pins, extractors, ejectors, pins, springs, etc. are generally all one needs to make.
Last, there is the repair of parts, and those I have done many of by adding spot of weld, then shaping it back, then hardening and drawing for temper. I've successfully welded Winchester Mod. 12 firing pins, which generally break in the middle, and haven't ever had one to come back.
Last, there is the repair of parts, and those I have done many of by adding spot of weld, then shaping it back, then hardening and drawing for temper. I've successfully welded Winchester Mod. 12 firing pins, which generally break in the middle, and haven't ever had one to come back.
Gunplummer
New member
I could not agree more with Mr. T. O'Heir. Material knowledge and heat treating of the material is everything. Over the years I have seen some absolutely stupid things done to guns with welders and a torch. A good place to start parts making would be with screws. A lot of gun screws are weird threads and there is a market for them. Most screws can be made from pre-heat 4140 without further heat treating.
JeepHammer
Moderator
You do know old time gun makers used to have a box with, for lack of a better word, a 'Mini-Lathe' that was hand driven?
They cut their own screws from scratch.
If you want to make a flat spring, you better start with spring steel in the first place,
No shortage of spring steel, high quality spring steel on all 4 corners of about every vehicle made...
But you had better know how to heat treat that steel or you will have failures!
The heat treating can be done with nothing more than a propane torch, a magnet, and 'Quench' oil.
It's not difficult, but you MUST do it correctly.
When I was young, didn't have a drivers license yet,
I ran into an old retired machinist/gunsmith.
(He's the reason I became a machinist)
Cranky old dude, retired from Thompson Center firearms, worked as a master model builder for Yale lock.
Could make ANYTHING.
I had a broken flat spring in a muzzle loader replica,
And instead of just making the spring for me, he taught me how to make that spring,
And about any other flat spring I might need in the future.
Small parts, pins, springs, this and that isn't too difficult,
I wouldn't try to make my own super thin barrel...
Some pretty close tolerance metallurgy going on there,
And some slides on handguns simply take too many jigs to build, you are MUCH better off just ordering one...
The most CHALLENGING build I've made is machining a block of aluminum out to make, More or less, An AR lower that accepted STEN magazines,
And used a Cobray M11/9mm top end (Housing, bolt, 10" barrel)...
The guy dumped almost a grand into the hunk of aluminum, then couldn't pass the background check to own it.
Just a shame to cut it up after that much work...
They cut their own screws from scratch.
If you want to make a flat spring, you better start with spring steel in the first place,
No shortage of spring steel, high quality spring steel on all 4 corners of about every vehicle made...
But you had better know how to heat treat that steel or you will have failures!
The heat treating can be done with nothing more than a propane torch, a magnet, and 'Quench' oil.
It's not difficult, but you MUST do it correctly.
When I was young, didn't have a drivers license yet,
I ran into an old retired machinist/gunsmith.
(He's the reason I became a machinist)
Cranky old dude, retired from Thompson Center firearms, worked as a master model builder for Yale lock.
Could make ANYTHING.
I had a broken flat spring in a muzzle loader replica,
And instead of just making the spring for me, he taught me how to make that spring,
And about any other flat spring I might need in the future.
Small parts, pins, springs, this and that isn't too difficult,
I wouldn't try to make my own super thin barrel...
Some pretty close tolerance metallurgy going on there,
And some slides on handguns simply take too many jigs to build, you are MUCH better off just ordering one...
The most CHALLENGING build I've made is machining a block of aluminum out to make, More or less, An AR lower that accepted STEN magazines,
And used a Cobray M11/9mm top end (Housing, bolt, 10" barrel)...
The guy dumped almost a grand into the hunk of aluminum, then couldn't pass the background check to own it.
Just a shame to cut it up after that much work...
Gunsmiths, amateur or professional, have to be careful about making receivers unless they are licensed manufacturers. Anyone can make a Title I firearm for his own use, but a second person cannot make that firearm (or receiver) for him without a Title I manufacturer's license. With Title II (NFA) guns, an approved Form 1 means that the person whose name is on it can make the item; if someone else makes it for that person, that other person has to have a Title II manufacturer's license.
Jim
Jim
JeepHammer
Moderator
I was going through a manufacturer/dealer, I just did the prototype.
Gunplummer
New member
I made a lot of claw extractors from 0-1 and quite a few minor flat springs from banding and then heat treating. I have no idea what the banding specs are, but it must have a lot of carbon because it hardens right up in oil. The different widths in banding also work good for a lot of ejectors you run into. This whole thread kind of started because of some article about kurdish gunsmiths. I did not bother to read it. The same thing came up when when the Russians were in there. Apparently the locals were producing copies of .303 Britt rifles from railroad cast off material. The result LOOKED good, but stopped there.
True spring steel is available from Brownells.I think its 1095,but I could be wrong.
I don't doubt your success with O-1 extractors,Gunplummer,and I have seen Mauser claws,aftermarket,that were supposedly O-1.In my experience,while O-1 is a good,usefull tool steel,it can be a bit brittle.
I will confess I often have chosen O-1 for the convenience of the drill rod or flat ground stock,and also my torch,eyeball,and oilcan heat treat system may have lacked process control.
From a knifemaking book I have I learned many circular saw blades are L-6 carbon tool steel.That may be good to know.
Flat ground and drill rod in tool steels like W-1,O-1,A-2,D-2,S-7,etc can be had from MSC.But,no joke,you can probably find it on Amazon!Aircraft tubing,4140 seamless drawn over mandrel,look to MSC or maybe Aircraft Spruce.They sell a lot of good stuff.Composites,graphite,kevlar,epoxies,polyesters,balsa,spruce,etc.
8620 can be had from McMaster Carr.Plenty of good receivers have been made from that.It also case hardens well.A great steel to have around for general gun parts.
If you can find a shop that builds or repairs plastic injection molds,there is a pre-hard mold steel called P-20.If I recall right it might be Rockwell 24 to 28 "C"?.Something like that.Pretty useful,polishes well.
Look up "mold core pins" and "Mold Ejector Pins" in the MSC or DME catalogues.Learn about the steel,and grades of hardness.They are H-13 hotwork steel.You can get some high grade tool steel,already heat treated to about as hard as you can machine with Hi-Speed for one grade "C" pins,I think,"CX" pins are harder,up in the 40's R "C".You can use carbide or grind them.Ejector pins are surface nitride to high 50's R"C",with tough cores.Available as pins and blades.
17-4 ph is cool.Machines great,semi-stainless.Precipitant hardening.That means a couple hours at 900 Deg f gets it up into the 40's Rockwell "C",with very high tensile.No warp.
An allen wrench can be a useful piece of stock.
ETD 150 and ETD 180 are "elevated temperature drawn" carbon alloy steels.Thats sort of like work hardened.The tensile on them is 150,000 and 180,000 psi,respectively.
"Stressproof" shafting is a workhardened steel bar.Not real hard or special,but better than 1018 cold rolled mechanically.
I don't recall so well right now,but seems like 1057 or 1157? was a good carbon steel for small case hardened/carburized parts and tools.
I don't doubt your success with O-1 extractors,Gunplummer,and I have seen Mauser claws,aftermarket,that were supposedly O-1.In my experience,while O-1 is a good,usefull tool steel,it can be a bit brittle.
I will confess I often have chosen O-1 for the convenience of the drill rod or flat ground stock,and also my torch,eyeball,and oilcan heat treat system may have lacked process control.
From a knifemaking book I have I learned many circular saw blades are L-6 carbon tool steel.That may be good to know.
Flat ground and drill rod in tool steels like W-1,O-1,A-2,D-2,S-7,etc can be had from MSC.But,no joke,you can probably find it on Amazon!Aircraft tubing,4140 seamless drawn over mandrel,look to MSC or maybe Aircraft Spruce.They sell a lot of good stuff.Composites,graphite,kevlar,epoxies,polyesters,balsa,spruce,etc.
8620 can be had from McMaster Carr.Plenty of good receivers have been made from that.It also case hardens well.A great steel to have around for general gun parts.
If you can find a shop that builds or repairs plastic injection molds,there is a pre-hard mold steel called P-20.If I recall right it might be Rockwell 24 to 28 "C"?.Something like that.Pretty useful,polishes well.
Look up "mold core pins" and "Mold Ejector Pins" in the MSC or DME catalogues.Learn about the steel,and grades of hardness.They are H-13 hotwork steel.You can get some high grade tool steel,already heat treated to about as hard as you can machine with Hi-Speed for one grade "C" pins,I think,"CX" pins are harder,up in the 40's R "C".You can use carbide or grind them.Ejector pins are surface nitride to high 50's R"C",with tough cores.Available as pins and blades.
17-4 ph is cool.Machines great,semi-stainless.Precipitant hardening.That means a couple hours at 900 Deg f gets it up into the 40's Rockwell "C",with very high tensile.No warp.
An allen wrench can be a useful piece of stock.
ETD 150 and ETD 180 are "elevated temperature drawn" carbon alloy steels.Thats sort of like work hardened.The tensile on them is 150,000 and 180,000 psi,respectively.
"Stressproof" shafting is a workhardened steel bar.Not real hard or special,but better than 1018 cold rolled mechanically.
I don't recall so well right now,but seems like 1057 or 1157? was a good carbon steel for small case hardened/carburized parts and tools.
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I made this trigger guard/main spring for my underhammer muzzle loading shotgun from a worn out circular saw blade. I cut it out using a cutoff disk in an air grinder and formed it to shape by heating it red hot and hammering it to shape using basic blacksmith tools. I never bothered to temper it because it had enough snap as is to fire the percussion caps reliably.
This is what the original part that broke looked like.
These have had a history of breaking right where the notch that the hammer goes through suddenly ends. A major design flaw in my opinion. When I made the home-made part, I made that notch end in a long gradual V shape instead of square, eliminating the stress riser.
That home made part has been on the gun now for many thousands of shots, I use this gun in ML trap competitions and I know I have gone through many 1000 count bags of overpowder and overshot wads.
This is what the original part that broke looked like.
These have had a history of breaking right where the notch that the hammer goes through suddenly ends. A major design flaw in my opinion. When I made the home-made part, I made that notch end in a long gradual V shape instead of square, eliminating the stress riser.
That home made part has been on the gun now for many thousands of shots, I use this gun in ML trap competitions and I know I have gone through many 1000 count bags of overpowder and overshot wads.
Gunplummer
New member
Buy 0-1 from Starret. The levels to bring it to "Spring" are enclosed with the stock. I seem to remember that it was printed in Brownell's also.
Gunplummer
New member
B.L.E., I am guessing that is an after market gun? Nothing wrong with what you did. In my experience with flat spring applications, it is more of figuring the length to stress balance than anything else. you know the old saying, "It works for me!".
I think a gentleman named Bob Mimms who lives in Odessa TX built that gun using a Billingsworth underhammer lock kit. I'm probably the third or fourth owner of that particular gun. I added stock weight and a clamp on barrel weight to get the gun's weight up to about 8.25 pounds so I could shoot 100 birds without feeling like I was in a bar brawl afterwards. It's a trap gun with a ventilated rib, about as close as you can get to a muzzleloading BT-99. It has served me well at the muzzle loading trap shoots I like to go to.
You definitely won't find guns like this at your local Cabelas or Bass Pro.
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupp...cgi?cart_id=4191868.30194&product=Underhammer
You definitely won't find guns like this at your local Cabelas or Bass Pro.
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupp...cgi?cart_id=4191868.30194&product=Underhammer