I have talked to several people on this issue and want your opinions. Does leaving a magazine loaded weaken the spring and harm the magazine? I realize this does not matter in the case of a semi-auto kept for home defense since it would be foolish to keep the magazine unloaded in a gun that would be needed in a ready condition. Just curious. I keep all my magazines empty except for the 9mm in my night stand. It has a 15 round mag. I usually keep 10 or 12 rounds in it. Harm or no harm?
Magazine Question
- Thread starter KMAX
- Start date
Repetitive stress is what wears magazines out. The cycle of stressing and unstressing the molecules repeatedly weakens them. If you leave your mags loaded they will last years. If you shoot them regularly, they will wear out over time. If you shoot it daily, probably won't last a year before you notice weakening. Weekly, might be a year or two or three. Monthly, maybe 5 years, and so on. But leaving it loaded is no better or worse than leaving it empty from what I've read. just the repeated use will wear it down.
Everything I have heard or read on it goes along with most of what wildfan said. One thing I'd like to add though is magazine springs are usually really cheap. If it worries you, for not a lot of money you can replace them every year or so and you won't have anything to worry about.
Not terribly worried about it. Just a thought I had while I was cleaning my 9mm mags. Thanks for your responses. They are what I believed to be the case. The reason I keep most of my mags empty is because I see no reason to refill them until I get ready to use them. I only keep the bedside mag loaded. Thanks again.
If you're underloading your mags, even by only a round or two, the odds are very good that you'll not see any issues from leaving them loaded indefinitely.
It's not common to see problems from leaving mags loaded anyway, but to the extent that it's possible to have an issue, it's usually due to a mag designer who worked a little too hard at trying to maximize capacity at the cost of spring life. It's the last bit of compression that's the hardest on a spring and if the mag design compresses the spring a little too much when the mag is fully loaded, underloading the mag by a round or two essentially eliminates that issue.
The best advice is to check your equipment frequently to make sure it's still operating properly--it's better to find problems during a routine check than in an emergency. If you note a problem, you can replace the springs very economically.
It's not common to see problems from leaving mags loaded anyway, but to the extent that it's possible to have an issue, it's usually due to a mag designer who worked a little too hard at trying to maximize capacity at the cost of spring life. It's the last bit of compression that's the hardest on a spring and if the mag design compresses the spring a little too much when the mag is fully loaded, underloading the mag by a round or two essentially eliminates that issue.
The best advice is to check your equipment frequently to make sure it's still operating properly--it's better to find problems during a routine check than in an emergency. If you note a problem, you can replace the springs very economically.
warningshot
New member
If I bought cheap, non proven design non proven manufacturers magazine with a life-time guarantee....yea...I'd be concearned.
Kreyzhorse
New member
It isn't a problem. Load your mags and don't worry about it.
Walt Sherrill
New member
This topic has been discussed at length, many different times, here on the forum. Do a search on "stretching springs" or "magazine springs" or similar topics. Engineers familiar with the materials have been involved in these discussions, along with people who work in the industry. Some of the responses have included very technical articles from respected sources.
The issues -- magazine failure -- when it arises, seems to happen most often with very high-cap magazines and magazines for sub-compact weapons. Those springs are pushed to limits not usually demanded of magazine springs in full-size guns that aren't hi-cap (or their smaller equivalent.)
Cycling could, over time, wear down a spring, but a properly designed mag won't generally allow the spring to be pushed to it's limits -- and its use at or near those limits that cause the most damage. With some guns and mags, however, the designer have no choice -- to do what they've got to do, something has to give.
Note: if cycling alone killed springs, the tappet springs on most cars woulds die rapidly. They don't. They often outlive the rest of the car. If you leave an air gun fully cocked, for long periods, you'll begin to notice a degradation in performance pretty quickly. (That's one of the things that folks who shoot spring-powered air guns warn about.)
Spring makers, like Wolff, recommend downloading the potentially stressed mag springs (not all mag springs) a round or two for long-term storage. They say that springs pushed to their elastic limit (i.e., almost or fully compressed) degrade far more quickly than springs that aren't allowed to be pressed that far. Some mag springs don't even come close to being fully compressed.
We've all heard of 1911 (7-round) magazines left fully loaded for decades, that continue to function properly. Those springs aren't compressed that fully and aren't pushed to their "elastic" limit. 1911 8-round mags, on the other hand, tend to be more troublesome, and the springs must do more in less space.
If you'll check, you'll find that the recoil spring in nearly all of the the subcompact guns must be replaced far more regularly than the springs in full-size guns. And those springs aren't kept stored in a fully-loaded [compressed] state. Again, we're asking springs to do more than they've ever been asked to do before, in less space. As I wrote earlier, something has to give.
As JohnKSa mentioned, gun designers have been pushed to build smaller and smaller guns, and guns with larger capacities -- and the science of spring-making hasn't advanced all that much in recent years. That has made springs one of the "renewable resources" that are expended (used up) to achieve these new, higher capacities and more extended functionality. Some springs are asked to do more and don't live as long as a consequence. For most of us, it's not likely to be a problem, but if you have a hi-cap mag, or a mag that's used in a sub-compact, you might consider downloading a round or two when storing for long periods.
RE: rotating mags. It doesn't really save springs. It just spreads the wear over more springs. That practice can delay the need to replace springs for a "group" of springs, but over time, you're going to replace just as many as before. And, if the unused mags are kept fully loaded, and they're hi-caps or the sub-compact equivalent, there may be no savings at all. Rested springs don't heal. If they're not hi-caps, you probably didn't need to rotate them in the first place.
The issues -- magazine failure -- when it arises, seems to happen most often with very high-cap magazines and magazines for sub-compact weapons. Those springs are pushed to limits not usually demanded of magazine springs in full-size guns that aren't hi-cap (or their smaller equivalent.)
Cycling could, over time, wear down a spring, but a properly designed mag won't generally allow the spring to be pushed to it's limits -- and its use at or near those limits that cause the most damage. With some guns and mags, however, the designer have no choice -- to do what they've got to do, something has to give.
Note: if cycling alone killed springs, the tappet springs on most cars woulds die rapidly. They don't. They often outlive the rest of the car. If you leave an air gun fully cocked, for long periods, you'll begin to notice a degradation in performance pretty quickly. (That's one of the things that folks who shoot spring-powered air guns warn about.)
Spring makers, like Wolff, recommend downloading the potentially stressed mag springs (not all mag springs) a round or two for long-term storage. They say that springs pushed to their elastic limit (i.e., almost or fully compressed) degrade far more quickly than springs that aren't allowed to be pressed that far. Some mag springs don't even come close to being fully compressed.
We've all heard of 1911 (7-round) magazines left fully loaded for decades, that continue to function properly. Those springs aren't compressed that fully and aren't pushed to their "elastic" limit. 1911 8-round mags, on the other hand, tend to be more troublesome, and the springs must do more in less space.
If you'll check, you'll find that the recoil spring in nearly all of the the subcompact guns must be replaced far more regularly than the springs in full-size guns. And those springs aren't kept stored in a fully-loaded [compressed] state. Again, we're asking springs to do more than they've ever been asked to do before, in less space. As I wrote earlier, something has to give.
As JohnKSa mentioned, gun designers have been pushed to build smaller and smaller guns, and guns with larger capacities -- and the science of spring-making hasn't advanced all that much in recent years. That has made springs one of the "renewable resources" that are expended (used up) to achieve these new, higher capacities and more extended functionality. Some springs are asked to do more and don't live as long as a consequence. For most of us, it's not likely to be a problem, but if you have a hi-cap mag, or a mag that's used in a sub-compact, you might consider downloading a round or two when storing for long periods.
RE: rotating mags. It doesn't really save springs. It just spreads the wear over more springs. That practice can delay the need to replace springs for a "group" of springs, but over time, you're going to replace just as many as before. And, if the unused mags are kept fully loaded, and they're hi-caps or the sub-compact equivalent, there may be no savings at all. Rested springs don't heal. If they're not hi-caps, you probably didn't need to rotate them in the first place.
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People will argue it, but I've personally found the Glock 17 factory mag springs WOULD shorten over time if left fully loaded, in the '90s when I was still working. Mine did, the department armorer found the same thing during annual inspection breakdowns & would routinely replace those springs with new ones when they reached a certain point.
Dunno if they still will, or if Glock's changed the spring material since.
The ONLY feeding failure I've ever had in a Glock, possibly coincidentally or possibly not, was my 1988 first gen 17 binding up a factory round inside the mag too low for the slide to grab it on closing, at a department qualifier.
Denis
Dunno if they still will, or if Glock's changed the spring material since.
The ONLY feeding failure I've ever had in a Glock, possibly coincidentally or possibly not, was my 1988 first gen 17 binding up a factory round inside the mag too low for the slide to grab it on closing, at a department qualifier.
Denis
Walt Sherrill
New member
All magazine springs (and recoil springs) will shorten after they are installed. It's a normal and usual change -- coil springs will always take a "SET." That change is understood and taken into consideration by the engineers who design them for a particular application.
When problems arise it is with degradation, over time.
Recoil springs, unlike flat springs, don't typically break -- they soften -- and as the soften, the aren't able to do as much work. With a flat spring, fractures in the metal typically occur in a focused area. With recoil springs, the fractures occur throughout the spring, as most areas in a recoil spring are load-bearing/working areas. (I added the following a couple days after the original post.)
While a flat spring will break because all of the micro fractures tend to occur in a general area, with coil spring, the wear is spread, and the breaks are spread. They never function long enough to break -- a soft spring quits working. (Coil springs in cars WILL break, but more often they'll just sag.)
A fully loaded mag (especially a hi-cap which has compressed the springs to a greater degree than a non-hi-cap mag) is working as it sets unused. That spring is pressing upwards and trying to LIFT a full column of ammo. It's working even when it seems to NOT be working. It doesn't turn on when you remove a round, to push up the next round and turn off when it's still -- it's pushing up all the time.
If the spring is at its elastic limit, the spring can degrade. If its not near it's elastic limit (as might be the case with a 7-round 1911 mag), it can sit fully loaded for years without problems.
When problems arise it is with degradation, over time.
Recoil springs, unlike flat springs, don't typically break -- they soften -- and as the soften, the aren't able to do as much work. With a flat spring, fractures in the metal typically occur in a focused area. With recoil springs, the fractures occur throughout the spring, as most areas in a recoil spring are load-bearing/working areas. (I added the following a couple days after the original post.)
While a flat spring will break because all of the micro fractures tend to occur in a general area, with coil spring, the wear is spread, and the breaks are spread. They never function long enough to break -- a soft spring quits working. (Coil springs in cars WILL break, but more often they'll just sag.)
A fully loaded mag (especially a hi-cap which has compressed the springs to a greater degree than a non-hi-cap mag) is working as it sets unused. That spring is pressing upwards and trying to LIFT a full column of ammo. It's working even when it seems to NOT be working. It doesn't turn on when you remove a round, to push up the next round and turn off when it's still -- it's pushing up all the time.
If the spring is at its elastic limit, the spring can degrade. If its not near it's elastic limit (as might be the case with a 7-round 1911 mag), it can sit fully loaded for years without problems.
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warningshot
New member
Is it spring degradation or shooter degradation?
Walt Sherrill
New member
In the context in which you found that statement -- "when problems arise it is with degradation, over time" -- the subject was spring-related problems.
Some mag and recoil springs in some applications will last longer than the gun or the shooter. In other cases, they won't last as long -- because the springs are being forced to perform in ways that causes the springs to degrade or fail.
You may not have experienced that sort of problem, but a number of shooters have.
On the other hand, shooters can degrade, too.
Some mag and recoil springs in some applications will last longer than the gun or the shooter. In other cases, they won't last as long -- because the springs are being forced to perform in ways that causes the springs to degrade or fail.
You may not have experienced that sort of problem, but a number of shooters have.
On the other hand, shooters can degrade, too.
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The experts say its not an issue and I go along with that.
Keep in mind, something should not just let be sit indefinitely .
so, its not only a good idea, its mandatory that you shoot the spare magazines that might just sit there.
One it ensures they are working and reliable.
Two it gets the parts moving and helps ensure that they won't stick or jam when needed.
Keep in mind, something should not just let be sit indefinitely .
so, its not only a good idea, its mandatory that you shoot the spare magazines that might just sit there.
One it ensures they are working and reliable.
Two it gets the parts moving and helps ensure that they won't stick or jam when needed.
Walt has it right. Ive personally provided numerous links to support.
If this were true, with a 12 round magazine, the recoil spring will wear out 12 faster than the mag spring and by your estimated calculations, the recoil spring would wear out in about 1 month if shot daily.
And in actuality, given the speed and heat associated with the recoil spring over the mag spring, it should wear out even faster.
We all know that recoil springs arent wearing out in a month.
ANY and ALL springs will exhibit some type of fatigue if left under compression.
How much will depend on the over all design of the spring and mag.
If this were true, with a 12 round magazine, the recoil spring will wear out 12 faster than the mag spring and by your estimated calculations, the recoil spring would wear out in about 1 month if shot daily.
And in actuality, given the speed and heat associated with the recoil spring over the mag spring, it should wear out even faster.
We all know that recoil springs arent wearing out in a month.
ANY and ALL springs will exhibit some type of fatigue if left under compression.
How much will depend on the over all design of the spring and mag.
