m4
- Thread starter don vito
- Start date
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
M4 is basically an up-dated Car-15
No differences in the basic operating mechanism. The barrel twist and sights are (IIRC) the main differences.
Giz
No differences in the basic operating mechanism. The barrel twist and sights are (IIRC) the main differences.
Giz
Jeff White
New member
Evverything you always Wanted to Know about the M16 series but were Afraid to Ask
The M4 differs from the M16 in these ways:
1. Barrel Length 14.5" vs. 20" Barrel contour is the same as the M16A2 (heavy in front of the handguards) but with a section that has been turned down to the under handguard diameter to facilitate mounting an M203 Grenade Launcher.
2. Buttstock is a 4 position collapsible type.
Those are the primary differences. The M4A1 uses the same trigger group as the M16, M16A1 and M16A3(safe-semi-auto). The M4 uses the same trigger group found in the M16A2 and M16A4 (safe-semi-burst). All currently produced M4s and M4A1s have removeable carry handles with rear sights that are only adjustable to 600 meters for elevation vs. 800 meters for the fixed carry handle versions. Early M4s had fixed carry handles.
Right now the U.S. Armed Forces currently fields the following versions of the AR15/M16:
M16-Original model as adopted in 1963. 20" 1/12 twist barrel, open 3 prong flash hider, locking sights that require a tool (nail, ballpoint pen, bullet tip or even sight tool
) to adjust, triangular handguards, original length buttstock without a compartment for cleaning supplies, no forward assist. Many still in service in the USAF.
M16A1-Same as the M16 but with closed "birdcage" flash hider, trapdoor buttstock and forward assist. Thousands still in service with Army reserve components.
M16A2-Adopted as standard by the USMC in about 1982 and the Army in 1985. 20" barrel that is heavy in front of the handguards in 1/7" twist. Flash hider closed on the bottom to reduce dust signature when firing from the prone. Front sight post changed from round to square. Handguards changed from triangular to round. "Click" adjustable rear sight, windage and elevation to 800 meters. Lower receiver reinforced near receiver extension tube. Buttstock made 5/8 inch longer and buttplate changed to make it "stick" in the shoulder pocket better. Finger groove added to pistol grip. Fire control system changed from safe-semi-auto to safe-semi-burst, the burst position being a cam device that will fire one to three rounds per squeeze of the trigger depending on where the cam was when the trigger was released from the previous burst. Standard issue in the USMC and regular Army.
M16A3-Same as the M16A2 only has a safe-semi-fire trigger group. Found in the Navy
M16A4-Same as the M16A2 only has a removeable carry handle with 600 meter rear sight. Most of them have the M5 Rail Adapter system in place of the standard handguards. Found in Army Special Operations Units.
M4-Carbine version of the M16A2. Differences as noted above. Found in Airborne, Air Assault and Light Infantry units. has replaced the M16A2 in most of these units. Also issed to replace the M3 "Grease Gun" as BII on armored vehicles.
M4A1-As noted above, found in Army Special Operations units.
There may be minor differences in the way these weapons are fielded but that's basically the down and dirty of it. I understand the Marines have a limited number of M4s and the USAF has converted some M16s to M4s and armed PJs and CCTs with them.
HTH
Jeff
The M4 differs from the M16 in these ways:
1. Barrel Length 14.5" vs. 20" Barrel contour is the same as the M16A2 (heavy in front of the handguards) but with a section that has been turned down to the under handguard diameter to facilitate mounting an M203 Grenade Launcher.
2. Buttstock is a 4 position collapsible type.
Those are the primary differences. The M4A1 uses the same trigger group as the M16, M16A1 and M16A3(safe-semi-auto). The M4 uses the same trigger group found in the M16A2 and M16A4 (safe-semi-burst). All currently produced M4s and M4A1s have removeable carry handles with rear sights that are only adjustable to 600 meters for elevation vs. 800 meters for the fixed carry handle versions. Early M4s had fixed carry handles.
Right now the U.S. Armed Forces currently fields the following versions of the AR15/M16:
M16-Original model as adopted in 1963. 20" 1/12 twist barrel, open 3 prong flash hider, locking sights that require a tool (nail, ballpoint pen, bullet tip or even sight tool
) to adjust, triangular handguards, original length buttstock without a compartment for cleaning supplies, no forward assist. Many still in service in the USAF.M16A1-Same as the M16 but with closed "birdcage" flash hider, trapdoor buttstock and forward assist. Thousands still in service with Army reserve components.
M16A2-Adopted as standard by the USMC in about 1982 and the Army in 1985. 20" barrel that is heavy in front of the handguards in 1/7" twist. Flash hider closed on the bottom to reduce dust signature when firing from the prone. Front sight post changed from round to square. Handguards changed from triangular to round. "Click" adjustable rear sight, windage and elevation to 800 meters. Lower receiver reinforced near receiver extension tube. Buttstock made 5/8 inch longer and buttplate changed to make it "stick" in the shoulder pocket better. Finger groove added to pistol grip. Fire control system changed from safe-semi-auto to safe-semi-burst, the burst position being a cam device that will fire one to three rounds per squeeze of the trigger depending on where the cam was when the trigger was released from the previous burst. Standard issue in the USMC and regular Army.
M16A3-Same as the M16A2 only has a safe-semi-fire trigger group. Found in the Navy
M16A4-Same as the M16A2 only has a removeable carry handle with 600 meter rear sight. Most of them have the M5 Rail Adapter system in place of the standard handguards. Found in Army Special Operations Units.
M4-Carbine version of the M16A2. Differences as noted above. Found in Airborne, Air Assault and Light Infantry units. has replaced the M16A2 in most of these units. Also issed to replace the M3 "Grease Gun" as BII on armored vehicles.
M4A1-As noted above, found in Army Special Operations units.
There may be minor differences in the way these weapons are fielded but that's basically the down and dirty of it. I understand the Marines have a limited number of M4s and the USAF has converted some M16s to M4s and armed PJs and CCTs with them.
HTH
Jeff
all M4-Carbines use by the U.S. Military have a trigger group that is (safe-semi-auto) the M4, M4A1, Carbines has not been use by are Military with the (safe-semi-burst) trigger group. the M4 and now M4A1 Carbines were made to replate the XM177 or Colt CAR-15 that were being use by the Navy SEALs, Army Ranger, and Green Beret.
Jeff White
New member
Dude,
Don't know where you heard that the M4 as used by the military is (safe-semi-auto) but that's not the case. All M4s are safe-semi-burst. The M4A1 is safe-semi-auto. Many people are confused and think that the A1 designation is for the removeable carry handle. It's not. ALL M4s currently being produced in either varient have removeable carry handles. Very early M4s have the old style fixed carry handle upper receivers.
The M4 has been around since the late '80s. It never made it into series production or was procured in any quantity until about 1998. I first saw the M4 mentioned in an official publication in about 1986 or 87. There was a small article in the Infantry News section of Infantry Magazine which is a professional journal published by the US Army Infantry School at Ft. Benning GA. This one paragraph article stated that the M4 was a short version of the current M16A2 and was being procured to replace the M3 Grease Gun and some 9mm pistols. It was also going to be issued to Platoon Leaders, Platoon Sergeants, RTOs and other soldiers in a rifle platoon who required a shorter lighter weapon because their primary duties were not to engage the enemy with rifle fire. At that time fielding plans sounded a lot like tha way they fielded the M1 Carbine in WWII.
The M4 resulted from an attempt by Colt to sell the US military their model 727 which was a commercial M16A2 carbine originally produced for Abu Dhabi. The Army had not fielded a carbine version of the M16 since 1973 when most of the XM177 series rifles were handed over to the ARVN with the pullout of US ground forces. A few XM177 series weapons remain in US inventories, mostly in the USAF, but the XM177 pretty much died as a viable commercial weapon for Colt when the BATF ruled that the sound moderator/compensator was a noise suppressor. (In actuality it only reduced the report to that of a standard 20" rifle.) In 1977 the Carter administration decided that suppressors were not exportable so Colt had no market for this weapon. Special Operations Forces (who have latitude to buy what they want commercially) purchased the Colt M16A1 Carbine in limited quantities (I don't remember the Colt Model number offhand). A Ranger 90mm recoiless rifle team moving down the beach in Grenada graced the December 1983 cover of Soldiers magazine. Both of these soldiers were armed with the M16A1 Carbine.
Probably several hundred M4s had trickled into the Army by the time of Desert Shield/Desert Storm. There were several photographs in the press that showed the CID protective service agents who were Schwartzcopf's security carrying M4s. M4s were also in the hands of some 5th Special Forces teams and Navy SEALS during this time. It was assumed by the conventional Infantry community that the M4 was going to be a limited procurement item when in 1998 they started rolling into the supply system. The new fielding plans were to replace all the M16A2s in both the 82d Airborne and 101st Air Assault with the M4. Other Infantry units were to only get the M4 in the rifle platoons and the support troops would keep their M16s.
My description of the current varients of the M16 comes from TM 9-1005-319-23&P current to change 6.
HTH
Jeff
Don't know where you heard that the M4 as used by the military is (safe-semi-auto) but that's not the case. All M4s are safe-semi-burst. The M4A1 is safe-semi-auto. Many people are confused and think that the A1 designation is for the removeable carry handle. It's not. ALL M4s currently being produced in either varient have removeable carry handles. Very early M4s have the old style fixed carry handle upper receivers.
The M4 has been around since the late '80s. It never made it into series production or was procured in any quantity until about 1998. I first saw the M4 mentioned in an official publication in about 1986 or 87. There was a small article in the Infantry News section of Infantry Magazine which is a professional journal published by the US Army Infantry School at Ft. Benning GA. This one paragraph article stated that the M4 was a short version of the current M16A2 and was being procured to replace the M3 Grease Gun and some 9mm pistols. It was also going to be issued to Platoon Leaders, Platoon Sergeants, RTOs and other soldiers in a rifle platoon who required a shorter lighter weapon because their primary duties were not to engage the enemy with rifle fire. At that time fielding plans sounded a lot like tha way they fielded the M1 Carbine in WWII.
The M4 resulted from an attempt by Colt to sell the US military their model 727 which was a commercial M16A2 carbine originally produced for Abu Dhabi. The Army had not fielded a carbine version of the M16 since 1973 when most of the XM177 series rifles were handed over to the ARVN with the pullout of US ground forces. A few XM177 series weapons remain in US inventories, mostly in the USAF, but the XM177 pretty much died as a viable commercial weapon for Colt when the BATF ruled that the sound moderator/compensator was a noise suppressor. (In actuality it only reduced the report to that of a standard 20" rifle.) In 1977 the Carter administration decided that suppressors were not exportable so Colt had no market for this weapon. Special Operations Forces (who have latitude to buy what they want commercially) purchased the Colt M16A1 Carbine in limited quantities (I don't remember the Colt Model number offhand). A Ranger 90mm recoiless rifle team moving down the beach in Grenada graced the December 1983 cover of Soldiers magazine. Both of these soldiers were armed with the M16A1 Carbine.
Probably several hundred M4s had trickled into the Army by the time of Desert Shield/Desert Storm. There were several photographs in the press that showed the CID protective service agents who were Schwartzcopf's security carrying M4s. M4s were also in the hands of some 5th Special Forces teams and Navy SEALS during this time. It was assumed by the conventional Infantry community that the M4 was going to be a limited procurement item when in 1998 they started rolling into the supply system. The new fielding plans were to replace all the M16A2s in both the 82d Airborne and 101st Air Assault with the M4. Other Infantry units were to only get the M4 in the rifle platoons and the support troops would keep their M16s.
My description of the current varients of the M16 comes from TM 9-1005-319-23&P current to change 6.
HTH
Jeff
you got me on that one White, i need to look at my History more, the frist M4-Carbines was made with the M16A2 trigger group that is (safe-sami-burst) i was looking at all the new M4, and M4A1 Carbines that the U.S. Military is buying now, that Fire in (safe-sami-auto)
hey there is no way any one can get them all right all the time
hey there is no way any one can get them all right all the time
Jeff White
New member
Don't want to argue...
Hey Dude,
I'm curious to know where you're hearing that current production M4s are safe-semi-auto. There is a lot of mis-information out there about military weapons. Even Chuck Taylor has written (very incorrectly) that the Army is changing the twist from 1/7 to 1/9 because barrels are wearing out prematurely. Of course nothing could be further from the truth because they would have to scap the capability to use tracer ammunition if they did (the very long M856 tracer bullet is the reason the twist is 1/7). Taylor wrote this in at least two articles in the popular gun press. It's now widely known to be an M16 version of the urban legend.
ALL M4s from the first XM4 sold to the Army for trials in the mid '80s to the next one to roll off the line in Hartford have a safe-semi-burst trigger group. ALL M4A1s have the safe-semi-auto trigger group. There are two parts that were developed to make the M4A1 more reliable and for a while they were unique to the M4A1. They are a heavier buffer (it has an "H" on the end of it) and a new extractor spring insert that is stronger. It is black in color (vs. blue for the one used in the M16 and M4). Current M4s are coming off the assembly line with these parts (as are current Colt semi-auto carbines like the R6920 Law Enforcement Carbine). But all M4s still have the safe-semi-burst trigger groups. Rock Island Armory (the government arsenel) is currently looking at a heavy barrel for the M4A1 due to barrel wear problems they are having with the full auto version vs. the burst fire M4.
You're right, there is almost no way to be right about this stuff 100% of the time, especially with so much wrong information being published in the popular gun press. That's one of the advantages of TFL. There will usually be someone here with first hand experience with about any question that may arise.
HTH
Jeff
Hey Dude,
I'm curious to know where you're hearing that current production M4s are safe-semi-auto. There is a lot of mis-information out there about military weapons. Even Chuck Taylor has written (very incorrectly) that the Army is changing the twist from 1/7 to 1/9 because barrels are wearing out prematurely. Of course nothing could be further from the truth because they would have to scap the capability to use tracer ammunition if they did (the very long M856 tracer bullet is the reason the twist is 1/7). Taylor wrote this in at least two articles in the popular gun press. It's now widely known to be an M16 version of the urban legend.
ALL M4s from the first XM4 sold to the Army for trials in the mid '80s to the next one to roll off the line in Hartford have a safe-semi-burst trigger group. ALL M4A1s have the safe-semi-auto trigger group. There are two parts that were developed to make the M4A1 more reliable and for a while they were unique to the M4A1. They are a heavier buffer (it has an "H" on the end of it) and a new extractor spring insert that is stronger. It is black in color (vs. blue for the one used in the M16 and M4). Current M4s are coming off the assembly line with these parts (as are current Colt semi-auto carbines like the R6920 Law Enforcement Carbine). But all M4s still have the safe-semi-burst trigger groups. Rock Island Armory (the government arsenel) is currently looking at a heavy barrel for the M4A1 due to barrel wear problems they are having with the full auto version vs. the burst fire M4.
You're right, there is almost no way to be right about this stuff 100% of the time, especially with so much wrong information being published in the popular gun press. That's one of the advantages of TFL. There will usually be someone here with first hand experience with about any question that may arise.
HTH
Jeff
Jeff White
New member
You're Right on that....
Dude,
Only Special Operations Forces get the M4A1. By Special Operations Forces I mean all Army Special Forces Groups, the Ranger Regiment and Special Operations Aviation, the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. The rest of the Army gets the M4 which is safe-semi-burst. M4A1 is only distributed to those units that have the resources to train to use the full auto. And still they are apparently having problems with barrel wear on the A1s.
Jeff
Dude,
Only Special Operations Forces get the M4A1. By Special Operations Forces I mean all Army Special Forces Groups, the Ranger Regiment and Special Operations Aviation, the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. The rest of the Army gets the M4 which is safe-semi-burst. M4A1 is only distributed to those units that have the resources to train to use the full auto. And still they are apparently having problems with barrel wear on the A1s.
Jeff
Jeff White
New member
The Info I've got says the 100% replacement plan is dead
STLRN,
I've heard that the plan to replace the M16A2 with the M4 throughout the Army was short lived and is now dead due to funding.
This is the last fielding plan I saw:
M4/M4A1 Carbine Completed Fieldings
Location Qty Model Date
Concept Evaluation Training 947 M4A1 FY95
Support Activity (CETSA)
75th Rangers 1589 M4A1 FY 95
3d Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
7th Special Forces Group 1068 M4A1 FY 95
5th Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
1st Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
10th Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
160th SOAR 609 M4A1 FY 95
JFK Special Warfare Center 60 M4A1 FY 95
Ft Benning 2027 M4 Feb 97
CETSA 170 M4 Feb 97
Aberdeen Proving Ground 3 M4 Feb 97
Fort Bragg 3246 M4 Mar 97
Fort McClellen 143 M4 Mar 97
Fort Knox 273 M4 Mar 97
Fort Campbell 2407 M4 Apr 97
Fort Gordon 10 M4 Feb 97
Fort Stewart 1696 M4 May 97
Hunter Army Airfield 2 M4 May 97
Hawaii (25th ID) 1300 M4 Jun 97
Korea 2922 M4 Jun 97
Fort Leonard Wood 171 M4 Jun 97
Fort Hood 4584 M4 Jul 97
Fort Polk 453 M4 Jul 97
Fort Riley 374 M4 Aug 97
Fort Bliss 109 M4 Aug 97
Fort Sill 132 M4 Aug 97
Fort Lewis 1610 M4 Aug 97
Fort Drum 121 M4 Sep 97
Fort Eustis 408 M4 Sep 97
Fort Carson 1342 M4 Oct 97
Alaska 575 M4 Oct 97
Fort Belvior 27 M4 Oct 97
Fort Gillem 10 M4 Oct 97
Fort Huachuca 15 M4 1qtr 98
Fort Jackson 20 M4 1qtr 98
75th Rangers 187 M4A1 Dec 97
3d Special Forces Group 298 M4A1 2qtr 98
7th Special Forces Group 296 M4A1 2qtr 98
5th Special Forces Group 298 M4A1 Dec 97
1st Special Forces Group 230 M4A1 Dec 97
1/1st Special Forces Group 68 M4A1 Dec 97
10th Special Forces Group 230 M4A1 2qtr 98
1/10th Special Forces Group 68 M4A1 Dec 97
160th SOAR 81 M4A1 Dec 97
Korea 12 M4A1 Dec 97
JFK Special Warfare Center 890 M4A1 Jan 98
19th SF Group (NG) 1371 M4A1 2qtr 98
20th SF Group (NG) 1371 M4A1 2qtr 98
82d Airborne Division 8146 M4 3qtr 98
101st Airborne Division AA 7444 M4 4qtr 98
10th Mountain Division 1110 M4 2qtr 99
Ft Drum 8 M4 2qtr 99
Panama 236 M4 2qtr 99
Southern Europe Task Force 713 M4 3qtr 99
1st Armored Division (FWD) 940 M4 3qtr 99
1st Infantry Division (FWD) 607 M4 3qtr 99
3d Infantry Division 369 M4 3qtr 99
Military Police Companies* 1283 M4 3qtr 99
USAREUR 690 M4 3qtr 99
1st Armored Division (-) 546 M4 3qtr 99
1st Infantry Division (-) 546 M4 3qtr 99
Fort Irwin 164 M4 3qtr 99
Fort Myers 236 M4 4qtr 99
Fort Belvior 109 M4 4qtr 99
Fort Rucker 9 M4 4qtr 99
Hawaii 462 M4 4qtr 99
NG Force Package 1/2 Units 1940 M4 4qtr 99
AR Force Package 1/2 Units 2911 M4 1qtr 00
NG/AR Force Package 3 Units 13698 M4 2qtr 00
NG/AR Force Package 4 Units 31716 M4 1qtr 01
3qtr 03
* Combat Support MP Companies
The above list was published in Army Times and I saved it for reference for an article I plan on writing on the M4.
HTH
Jeff
STLRN,
I've heard that the plan to replace the M16A2 with the M4 throughout the Army was short lived and is now dead due to funding.
This is the last fielding plan I saw:
M4/M4A1 Carbine Completed Fieldings
Location Qty Model Date
Concept Evaluation Training 947 M4A1 FY95
Support Activity (CETSA)
75th Rangers 1589 M4A1 FY 95
3d Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
7th Special Forces Group 1068 M4A1 FY 95
5th Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
1st Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
10th Special Forces Group 1066 M4A1 FY 95
160th SOAR 609 M4A1 FY 95
JFK Special Warfare Center 60 M4A1 FY 95
Ft Benning 2027 M4 Feb 97
CETSA 170 M4 Feb 97
Aberdeen Proving Ground 3 M4 Feb 97
Fort Bragg 3246 M4 Mar 97
Fort McClellen 143 M4 Mar 97
Fort Knox 273 M4 Mar 97
Fort Campbell 2407 M4 Apr 97
Fort Gordon 10 M4 Feb 97
Fort Stewart 1696 M4 May 97
Hunter Army Airfield 2 M4 May 97
Hawaii (25th ID) 1300 M4 Jun 97
Korea 2922 M4 Jun 97
Fort Leonard Wood 171 M4 Jun 97
Fort Hood 4584 M4 Jul 97
Fort Polk 453 M4 Jul 97
Fort Riley 374 M4 Aug 97
Fort Bliss 109 M4 Aug 97
Fort Sill 132 M4 Aug 97
Fort Lewis 1610 M4 Aug 97
Fort Drum 121 M4 Sep 97
Fort Eustis 408 M4 Sep 97
Fort Carson 1342 M4 Oct 97
Alaska 575 M4 Oct 97
Fort Belvior 27 M4 Oct 97
Fort Gillem 10 M4 Oct 97
Fort Huachuca 15 M4 1qtr 98
Fort Jackson 20 M4 1qtr 98
75th Rangers 187 M4A1 Dec 97
3d Special Forces Group 298 M4A1 2qtr 98
7th Special Forces Group 296 M4A1 2qtr 98
5th Special Forces Group 298 M4A1 Dec 97
1st Special Forces Group 230 M4A1 Dec 97
1/1st Special Forces Group 68 M4A1 Dec 97
10th Special Forces Group 230 M4A1 2qtr 98
1/10th Special Forces Group 68 M4A1 Dec 97
160th SOAR 81 M4A1 Dec 97
Korea 12 M4A1 Dec 97
JFK Special Warfare Center 890 M4A1 Jan 98
19th SF Group (NG) 1371 M4A1 2qtr 98
20th SF Group (NG) 1371 M4A1 2qtr 98
82d Airborne Division 8146 M4 3qtr 98
101st Airborne Division AA 7444 M4 4qtr 98
10th Mountain Division 1110 M4 2qtr 99
Ft Drum 8 M4 2qtr 99
Panama 236 M4 2qtr 99
Southern Europe Task Force 713 M4 3qtr 99
1st Armored Division (FWD) 940 M4 3qtr 99
1st Infantry Division (FWD) 607 M4 3qtr 99
3d Infantry Division 369 M4 3qtr 99
Military Police Companies* 1283 M4 3qtr 99
USAREUR 690 M4 3qtr 99
1st Armored Division (-) 546 M4 3qtr 99
1st Infantry Division (-) 546 M4 3qtr 99
Fort Irwin 164 M4 3qtr 99
Fort Myers 236 M4 4qtr 99
Fort Belvior 109 M4 4qtr 99
Fort Rucker 9 M4 4qtr 99
Hawaii 462 M4 4qtr 99
NG Force Package 1/2 Units 1940 M4 4qtr 99
AR Force Package 1/2 Units 2911 M4 1qtr 00
NG/AR Force Package 3 Units 13698 M4 2qtr 00
NG/AR Force Package 4 Units 31716 M4 1qtr 01
3qtr 03
* Combat Support MP Companies
The above list was published in Army Times and I saved it for reference for an article I plan on writing on the M4.
HTH
Jeff
Badger Arms
New member
STLRN
I remember a discussion of a similar nature a little while ago on this board. The bottom line is that the M-4 is NOT replacing the M16A2 throughout the Army. While many units are changing over, there is no wholesale attempt at replacing all the M16's going on. If there is, where are the forecasts for when it will be completed?
The M-4 is a good weapon, but still suffers from the many shortcomings of the M-16 design concept. With the gas system exhausting into the action, stoppages aren't a rare occurrance, they are a matter of fact. Yes, you can keep your gun spotless and never have a problem, but why do you want a gun you have to baby to get to work?
Enough Stoner bashing. I own a 16" Bushy myself and trust the gun thoroughly. I do keep it clean, though. I don't think I would want to equip an army with the gun, but it's light, handy, and accurate enough for my purposes.
I remember a discussion of a similar nature a little while ago on this board. The bottom line is that the M-4 is NOT replacing the M16A2 throughout the Army. While many units are changing over, there is no wholesale attempt at replacing all the M16's going on. If there is, where are the forecasts for when it will be completed?
The M-4 is a good weapon, but still suffers from the many shortcomings of the M-16 design concept. With the gas system exhausting into the action, stoppages aren't a rare occurrance, they are a matter of fact. Yes, you can keep your gun spotless and never have a problem, but why do you want a gun you have to baby to get to work?
Enough Stoner bashing. I own a 16" Bushy myself and trust the gun thoroughly. I do keep it clean, though. I don't think I would want to equip an army with the gun, but it's light, handy, and accurate enough for my purposes.
Jeff White
New member
Colt OWNS the M4
In a change from standard procurement practices the Army has awarded Colt sole rights to the M4 design. There were a few thousand M4s made by Bushmaster in the early 90s. After that the Army awarded Colt all rights to the design (which was theirs to start with) and all M4s are now made by Colt.
FN is still producing M16A2s and M16A4s along with repair parts, even for the M16A1. We have several M16A1s in the arms room of my Guard unit that have been re-barreled with FNMI marked A1 barrels.
Jeff
In a change from standard procurement practices the Army has awarded Colt sole rights to the M4 design. There were a few thousand M4s made by Bushmaster in the early 90s. After that the Army awarded Colt all rights to the design (which was theirs to start with) and all M4s are now made by Colt.
FN is still producing M16A2s and M16A4s along with repair parts, even for the M16A1. We have several M16A1s in the arms room of my Guard unit that have been re-barreled with FNMI marked A1 barrels.
Jeff
Lightfighter
New member
There are alot more M4s that you are saying...
When I was in the 10th Mountain Division more than a year ago, both Brigade Combat Teams had replaced all M16A2 rifles with M4 carbines (this does not apply to the people in the Lunch box repair battalions). A year before this they gave one M4 to each PL, PSG, and RTO; and the 1SG. This is my honest to goodness eyes on personal observation, not just something I read in some pub somewhere. I am now in the 101st Airborne and all three Brigade Combat Teams are also armed with M4 carbines, including some of the lunch box repair soldiers.
Every M4 I have ever touched (and I have touched M4 serial number W000013 up to W056214) was safe-1-3 shot burst. It is not an effective use of available resources to ever use three round burst and have rarely ever found an opportunity to need it other than SPENDEX (it is fun, though). We have the Squad Automatic Weapon for rapid fire, fire team suppression; professionals sight their target and pull the trigger. Period.
High Performance Tactical Gear!
http://www.Lightfighter.com
When I was in the 10th Mountain Division more than a year ago, both Brigade Combat Teams had replaced all M16A2 rifles with M4 carbines (this does not apply to the people in the Lunch box repair battalions). A year before this they gave one M4 to each PL, PSG, and RTO; and the 1SG. This is my honest to goodness eyes on personal observation, not just something I read in some pub somewhere. I am now in the 101st Airborne and all three Brigade Combat Teams are also armed with M4 carbines, including some of the lunch box repair soldiers.
Every M4 I have ever touched (and I have touched M4 serial number W000013 up to W056214) was safe-1-3 shot burst. It is not an effective use of available resources to ever use three round burst and have rarely ever found an opportunity to need it other than SPENDEX (it is fun, though). We have the Squad Automatic Weapon for rapid fire, fire team suppression; professionals sight their target and pull the trigger. Period.
High Performance Tactical Gear!
http://www.Lightfighter.com
Jeff White
New member
Those Figures were from '97
Lightfighter,
Thos figures were from a November 97 issue of Army Times. those were the fielding plans as of then. I'm sure there are more in the inventory now. That plan couldn't have taken into account additional procurement.
To my knowledge there is no plan to relace all M16s with M4s. The reserve components still have thousands of M16A1s in the inventory.
Jeff
Lightfighter,
Thos figures were from a November 97 issue of Army Times. those were the fielding plans as of then. I'm sure there are more in the inventory now. That plan couldn't have taken into account additional procurement.
To my knowledge there is no plan to relace all M16s with M4s. The reserve components still have thousands of M16A1s in the inventory.
Jeff
Badger Arms
New member
FOA Request?
Anybody know if the GAO would entertain a FOA request on this matter? I know that Air Force Pararescue had built a few up of their own and, to my knowledge, these weren't stock M-4's. That's the extent of my first-hand knowledge. I know that we also have some 10" barreled guns that were issued to SAC troops a decade ago.
Anybody know if the GAO would entertain a FOA request on this matter? I know that Air Force Pararescue had built a few up of their own and, to my knowledge, these weren't stock M-4's. That's the extent of my first-hand knowledge. I know that we also have some 10" barreled guns that were issued to SAC troops a decade ago.