M4 Carbine Question... (extreme conditions) Military or Exmilitary Should Know This.
- Thread starter M4A3
- Start date
You said it yourself recently in another post, "Sustained rate of fire 12-15 rounds per minute". That's military speak for how fast you can shoot without the barrel getting too hot.
Water, open bolt partially and tilt weapon down, water comes out the hole in the front end. Any barrel obstruction is a bad idea. Muzzlecap/condom(no glow in the dark please) to keep out of the rain. If submerged, stand up, get out of water and stop pretending to be a SEAL.
There, weapon dry.
Water, open bolt partially and tilt weapon down, water comes out the hole in the front end. Any barrel obstruction is a bad idea. Muzzlecap/condom(no glow in the dark please) to keep out of the rain. If submerged, stand up, get out of water and stop pretending to be a SEAL.
There, weapon dry.Well it's got to be more than that. I've run off a full 30 round mag at the range in about 15 seconds shooting semi-auto. The barrel was hot but didn't seem over heated.
I'm takling about, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc.. etc... 30 reload 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 like that. What like maby 4 30 round mags of constant shooting before the Danger Zone?
Does any body serously know the proper way.
I saw on a Marines comercial, some Marines coming out of a swamp or somthing from being completly under water. And I thought "well what if that needed to shoot like right then"?
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
12-15 rounds per minute is the sustained rate of fire. That is the rate you can continue to fire your carbine for an indefinite period without the barrel becoming overheated.
I'd aim for the lower end of that rate since carbines don't dissipate heat near as well as a 20" govt' profile barrel will. However, the Knight's RAS system on your SR-15 offers much better cooling than the standard carbine handguards, so you might be able to push it more towards 15 per minute.
If you are talking about how many rounds you can fire immediately, you'll hit cook-off in about 140 rounds firing "rapidly and continuously".
http://www.lepsa.org/Trainer's Archives/Firearms Safety/M16 cookoffs.htm
Even though it seems like you could shoot more rounds through your weapon during a short time period, you can't without the danger of a cookoff as mentioned above..or worse.
I think the movies are just as much to blame for this. We always see guys ripping off magazine after magazine of ammo. Well, in real life you have your basic combat load and perhaps a couple extra mags loaded before you either have a serious problem.
Have fun, but don't push the limits too much. You may find yourself rebarelling your beloved Knight soon.
Good Shooting
Red
I think the movies are just as much to blame for this. We always see guys ripping off magazine after magazine of ammo. Well, in real life you have your basic combat load and perhaps a couple extra mags loaded before you either have a serious problem.
Have fun, but don't push the limits too much. You may find yourself rebarelling your beloved Knight soon.
Good Shooting
Red
See, I did give the proper way. Now if you go and shoot 12rpm for 30 minutes (360 rounds / 12 mags) you will find your barrel quite hot. You will have also exceeded the basic load of most all infantrymen, in other words you're out of ammo. The M4 is a individual rifle/carbine, not a SAW or Light machine gun. You cannot easily swap barrels on the M4 and it fires from a closed bolt, unlike the open bolt of most every sustained fire weapon. Use it like a rifle and you'll have no problems.
Sorry, I guess I was one service off in my original comment. The SEALs, Marines whatever do that because sometimes there's no other way to get the job done. It's a little far out to imagine doing the same with your civilian M4gry or whatever. If you need to, see above, open bolt, drain from muzzle. Otherwise, keep your rifle dry. More shooting, less TV is good for all of us.
I've heard that bore diameter with the 22 is small enough that not all water will drain from them freely, something about a water droplett's surface tension being enough for it to adhere to the bore better than if it was in something larger like mabye a 30cal. rifle or a 45cal. handgun. A large water droplet could basically engulf the full diameter of a 22cal. bore, not having much weight/mass the droplet probably won't drain too freely on it's own with only the pull of gravity. This makes sense actually, it's possible to see the same thing with a ordinary drinking straw when sipping on a soda bought from the local fast food joint.
I've heard that upon exiting the water a downward "barrel whip" can be made to use centrifugal force to help eject the water from the bore, might be easier or more effective combined with an open/locked bolt.
I've been told that there is no need to worry about the gas tube, it will drain or clear automatically upon firing or that it's possible for it to not even get much water into it due to surface tension around such a small little tube and the way the parts of the gastube and gas key on the carrier fit so closely. If air can't escape then it's likely that water can't get in, or atleast not a whole lot of it.
As for the professionals out there who's job has them swimming around with their firearms, whether or not there is time to properly clear the barrel depending on certain situations that might arise, heck if I know.
The idea of bringing a high powered rifle out from being submerged and firing it with a barrel full of water isn't a pleasing thought to me, risks might be worth it though to shoot with as little hesitation as possible if your life is in immediate danger. I wonder what exactly might be going through their mind if they are about to do something similar, or if they have done it outside of an urgent combat situation just for informational or educational experience?
I've heard that upon exiting the water a downward "barrel whip" can be made to use centrifugal force to help eject the water from the bore, might be easier or more effective combined with an open/locked bolt.
I've been told that there is no need to worry about the gas tube, it will drain or clear automatically upon firing or that it's possible for it to not even get much water into it due to surface tension around such a small little tube and the way the parts of the gastube and gas key on the carrier fit so closely. If air can't escape then it's likely that water can't get in, or atleast not a whole lot of it.
As for the professionals out there who's job has them swimming around with their firearms, whether or not there is time to properly clear the barrel depending on certain situations that might arise, heck if I know.
The idea of bringing a high powered rifle out from being submerged and firing it with a barrel full of water isn't a pleasing thought to me, risks might be worth it though to shoot with as little hesitation as possible if your life is in immediate danger. I wonder what exactly might be going through their mind if they are about to do something similar, or if they have done it outside of an urgent combat situation just for informational or educational experience?
A Marine friend of mine who has shot an M4 lots and lots (far more than I have) has told me 4 mags full-auto one right after another will get the barrel glowing hot.
And for the water in the muzzle, do the old fashioned trick of strapping a condom over the muzzle and electrical-taping it in place. Looks funny, but it works. The Brits did it in the Falklands, our guys apparently did it a lot in Vietnam and I know several former-SEAL types who've mentioned doing it in their various books.
And for the water in the muzzle, do the old fashioned trick of strapping a condom over the muzzle and electrical-taping it in place. Looks funny, but it works. The Brits did it in the Falklands, our guys apparently did it a lot in Vietnam and I know several former-SEAL types who've mentioned doing it in their various books.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
A couple of things to remember:
1) A rate of fire of 12 rounds per minute can be sustained but it will still make the barrel hot and the gun itself nice and toasty. Rapid shooting and heat buildup are hard on a barrel and shorten its effective lifespan just like driving your car at a 120mph is harder on it than driving it at 60mph. Firing 12rpm is still enough to smoke all the CLP off the barrel and turn it white in about 20 minutes.
2) The number of rounds to cook off listed above is a little on the cautious side in my limited experience; but cook off is a very dangerous situation you don't want to find out about anyway. A lot of things effect how fast the weapon might cook off - thickness of barrel, type of handguards, weather. Don't assume you can get away with firing 120 rounds "rapidly and continuously" just because the magic number is supposed to be 140.
1) A rate of fire of 12 rounds per minute can be sustained but it will still make the barrel hot and the gun itself nice and toasty. Rapid shooting and heat buildup are hard on a barrel and shorten its effective lifespan just like driving your car at a 120mph is harder on it than driving it at 60mph. Firing 12rpm is still enough to smoke all the CLP off the barrel and turn it white in about 20 minutes.
2) The number of rounds to cook off listed above is a little on the cautious side in my limited experience; but cook off is a very dangerous situation you don't want to find out about anyway. A lot of things effect how fast the weapon might cook off - thickness of barrel, type of handguards, weather. Don't assume you can get away with firing 120 rounds "rapidly and continuously" just because the magic number is supposed to be 140.
Don't take lessons from the movies or TV. Those folks are shooting blanks, using propane guns, or (more and more) are firing nothing, with the muzzle flashes and sound added later in an editing process (the way the "light sabers" were inserted into the Star Wars films).
Even blanks are not used much today after some idiotic actors shot themselves thinking blanks are harmless. The insurance companies and the lawyers have about stopped the use of blanks on movie sets.
Jim
Even blanks are not used much today after some idiotic actors shot themselves thinking blanks are harmless. The insurance companies and the lawyers have about stopped the use of blanks on movie sets.
Jim