swan_derek
New member
Anyone want to share their favorite M1 garand loads?
M1 garand loads
- Thread starter swan_derek
- Start date
straight-shooter
New member
Favorite Full Load
LC 30-06 Brass
168 gr Hornady Amax bullet
46.3 gr of H4895
2.484 trim length
3.320 OAL
Favorite Load for hand cast lead
LC 30-06 Brass
Lee C309-200-1R Cast Bullet
33.3gr Varget
.7 - 1.0 Dacron filler
2.484 trim length
3.210 OAL
LC 30-06 Brass
168 gr Hornady Amax bullet
46.3 gr of H4895
2.484 trim length
3.320 OAL
Favorite Load for hand cast lead
LC 30-06 Brass
Lee C309-200-1R Cast Bullet
33.3gr Varget
.7 - 1.0 Dacron filler
2.484 trim length
3.210 OAL
condor bravo
New member
45gr 4895 or 4064 (somewhat conservative charge)
with 150, 168, 175, 180, even some 190 gr, generally HP-BTs (usually Sierras)
have even used 135 gr Speer HPs, but usually avoid 150 gr BTs due to minimal seating depth within case neck due to BT
180 gr would be overall favorite
have never attempted using cast lead bullets
Commercial Federal brass over Remington and Winchester since the Feds are generally heavier and thicker and provide greater case neck (bullet release) tension
CCI #200 primers, due to hardness, to help eliminate possibility of slam fires. Also in that behalf, recommend the use of the Redding primer pocket depth uniformer tool to cut primer pockets to their maximum optimal depth.
43gr 4895 or 4064 (again might be considered conservative by some)
190 or 200 gr Sierra HP-BTs (have a lot of these and need to use them up)
Federal brass
All seated to around 3.18 OAL
Don't bother trimming since cases are usually long lost before trimming would need attention.
with 150, 168, 175, 180, even some 190 gr, generally HP-BTs (usually Sierras)
have even used 135 gr Speer HPs, but usually avoid 150 gr BTs due to minimal seating depth within case neck due to BT
180 gr would be overall favorite
have never attempted using cast lead bullets
Commercial Federal brass over Remington and Winchester since the Feds are generally heavier and thicker and provide greater case neck (bullet release) tension
CCI #200 primers, due to hardness, to help eliminate possibility of slam fires. Also in that behalf, recommend the use of the Redding primer pocket depth uniformer tool to cut primer pockets to their maximum optimal depth.
43gr 4895 or 4064 (again might be considered conservative by some)
190 or 200 gr Sierra HP-BTs (have a lot of these and need to use them up)
Federal brass
All seated to around 3.18 OAL
Don't bother trimming since cases are usually long lost before trimming would need attention.
Last edited:
firewrench044
New member
+1 on ubove link
Master po's loads are good
Master po's loads are good
98 220 swift
New member
47gr imr 4895
Any 165gr bullets I can find
Rem or Win cases.
Win lr primers
Very accurate in all my 3006 milsurps.
Any 165gr bullets I can find
Rem or Win cases.
Win lr primers
Very accurate in all my 3006 milsurps.
swan_derek
New member
4064
How does everyone feel about 4064 IMR loads in the Garand?
How does everyone feel about 4064 IMR loads in the Garand?
condor bravo
New member
4064 is almost 4895's twin brother and typically one-half to a full grain more above 4895 is shown for 4064 powder charges with the Garand. When I'm out of one I just go to the other without changing the powder measure setting. The weight of one (for my use usually 45 gr) is very close to the weight of the other from the same measure adjustment. 4064 seems to be the 2nd choice below 4895 for the Garand. By all means use it; won't go wrong.
Last edited:
IMR4064 gives more consistent accuracy than either 4895 with slightly less pressure.
"...to help eliminate possibility of slam fires..." Improperly loaded ammo, usually high primers, is what causes slam fires. Not the brand of primer or the rifle. No need for CCI's so called "milspec" primers either. Those are nothing but magnum primers.
Federal brass is well known for being softer than other brands. Only means it will not last as long until the primer pockets enlarge.
Hornady's manual has an M1 Specific chapter, but you really don't need it. IMR or H 4895, IMR4064, Varget, BL-C(2) and a bunch of non-Hodgdon powders(Alliant's 4895, for example.) with 150 to 180 grain bullets. 165 grain hunting bullets are your friend. M1's a pig to lug around hunting though.
"...to help eliminate possibility of slam fires..." Improperly loaded ammo, usually high primers, is what causes slam fires. Not the brand of primer or the rifle. No need for CCI's so called "milspec" primers either. Those are nothing but magnum primers.
Federal brass is well known for being softer than other brands. Only means it will not last as long until the primer pockets enlarge.
Hornady's manual has an M1 Specific chapter, but you really don't need it. IMR or H 4895, IMR4064, Varget, BL-C(2) and a bunch of non-Hodgdon powders(Alliant's 4895, for example.) with 150 to 180 grain bullets. 165 grain hunting bullets are your friend. M1's a pig to lug around hunting though.
Swan_derek,
It all varies a bit with the rifle. If you want to copy, as closely as possible, the National Match loads from the 1960's, then 47.0 grains of IMR4895 under a 175 grain SMK using a TulAmmo KVB762 primer in LC brass comes very, very close to the historic average. I think the Master Po site has the IMR4895 and H4895 load values reversed, as H4895 usually runs a little warmer than the IMR version. (That is certainly the case with Hodgdon's own published loads, and they have the dead nuts average reference lots of these powders to load with, though if they were tested with lots at opposite ends of their burn rate tolerances, the Po site result is possible.) Start low and work up.
Most folks I know prefer IMR4064 over IMR4895 for match shooting, as it fills the .30-06 case better and is less temperature sensitive and a little less sensitive to small errors in exact charge weight. It's burn rate is well within the Garand-friendly burn rate range. Based on Hodgdon data, 47.4 grains of IMR4064 would get you the velocity of the 47.0 grain 4895 load in the LC case (Hodgdon uses Winchester brass, which has a little bit more space in it, so I have compensated; it's a half grain difference), and at a very slightly lower peak (but not significantly lower; both are about 9% below SAAMI maximum at their peaks).
In a 24" minimum chamber test barrel, these loads produce 2680 fps at 15' from the muzzle. With the 175 grain SMK, that would be 2641 fps at 78' from the muzzle, where the military measured them. Note that the SMK uses a COL of 3.300 in Hodgdon's data and 3.290" in Sierra's data. This is because it's meplat is wider than the military FMJ's, so to put the ogive the same distance off the throat, it seats a little deeper than 3.340". In your gun, of course, YMMV. Note that the Garand throws powder forward in the case during feeding, which reduces pressure and velocity, where the test barrel loads are carefully fired with the powder back over the primer.
Note that I mentioned the Russian-made TulAmmo primer. Not only is it a military sensitivity spec primer, but in board member Slamfire's experiments it has achieved lower velocity SD than any other, including the Federal 210M. Hard to seat, but a very consistent primer. Also less expensive than any other I buy.
It all varies a bit with the rifle. If you want to copy, as closely as possible, the National Match loads from the 1960's, then 47.0 grains of IMR4895 under a 175 grain SMK using a TulAmmo KVB762 primer in LC brass comes very, very close to the historic average. I think the Master Po site has the IMR4895 and H4895 load values reversed, as H4895 usually runs a little warmer than the IMR version. (That is certainly the case with Hodgdon's own published loads, and they have the dead nuts average reference lots of these powders to load with, though if they were tested with lots at opposite ends of their burn rate tolerances, the Po site result is possible.) Start low and work up.
Most folks I know prefer IMR4064 over IMR4895 for match shooting, as it fills the .30-06 case better and is less temperature sensitive and a little less sensitive to small errors in exact charge weight. It's burn rate is well within the Garand-friendly burn rate range. Based on Hodgdon data, 47.4 grains of IMR4064 would get you the velocity of the 47.0 grain 4895 load in the LC case (Hodgdon uses Winchester brass, which has a little bit more space in it, so I have compensated; it's a half grain difference), and at a very slightly lower peak (but not significantly lower; both are about 9% below SAAMI maximum at their peaks).
In a 24" minimum chamber test barrel, these loads produce 2680 fps at 15' from the muzzle. With the 175 grain SMK, that would be 2641 fps at 78' from the muzzle, where the military measured them. Note that the SMK uses a COL of 3.300 in Hodgdon's data and 3.290" in Sierra's data. This is because it's meplat is wider than the military FMJ's, so to put the ogive the same distance off the throat, it seats a little deeper than 3.340". In your gun, of course, YMMV. Note that the Garand throws powder forward in the case during feeding, which reduces pressure and velocity, where the test barrel loads are carefully fired with the powder back over the primer.
Note that I mentioned the Russian-made TulAmmo primer. Not only is it a military sensitivity spec primer, but in board member Slamfire's experiments it has achieved lower velocity SD than any other, including the Federal 210M. Hard to seat, but a very consistent primer. Also less expensive than any other I buy.
Last edited:
My advice for reloading for Garands/M1as is to
1. Full length resize in a small base die
2. Trim cases
3. Clean primer pockets, ream to depth
4. Prime all cases by hand, verify that all primers are below the case head, and use the least sensitive primers you can find.
5. Use IMR4895/AA2495/H4895 powders.
6. Seat the bullets to magazine depth, no longer than 3.3” inches for the 30-06, no longer than 2.8 for the 308, shorter is fine.
There are important safety considerations when reloading for Garands, M1as, and M1 Carbines. All of these rifles are functionally similar in that they all have a free floating firing pin. The risk in all mechanisms with free floating firing pins is that incidental contact between the firing pin and primer can cause cartridge ignition, or a “slamfire”. You can search the web and every mechanism with a free floating firing pin has a posted slamfire incident. This includes AK47s, SKSs, French rifles, etc, etc, etc. The worst case slamfire is a slamfire that occurs out of battery, this will result in a catastrophic failure of the mechanism. The Garand mechanism has the most out of battery slamfires of any rifle on the market, and this is due to the lack of a positive mechanical firing pin lock or blocking device. All of the Garand based mechanisms share a firing pin retraction cam, this cam pulls the firing pin back during extraction. It also has limited utility as a safety device, because it blocks to a limited extent the firing pin going forward, but that only happens in the last 0.007” of movement. Long or tight rounds totally defeat the firing pin retraction’s cam ability to hold back the firing before cam down. Given an overly sensitive primer, one that will go off when struck by a rebounding firing pin, if you sized your round smaller than the chamber the odds would will be in your favor to have an in battery slamfire.
Only at final cam down is the firing pin retracted. Up to then the firing pin is totally free floating and tapping the heck out of the primer.
This is a M1 Carbine firing pin retraction cam.
A M1 Garand firing pin retraction cam is functionally identical, just the carbine is easier to visually understand.
Firing pins in this mechanism are free floating and the mechanism does not have a positive mechanical interlock to prevent incidental contact between the free floating firing pin and the primer. As can be seen here, that bolt has around three inches of travel before the firing pin tang touches the retraction cam.
This is a M1 Garand receiver and the firing pin is fully forward and just touching the firing pin retraction cam. As you can see there is only thousand's of an inch of forward movement left in bolt cam down and yet the firing pin is out about 0.064" of the bolt face.
It turns out that cam down is the point at which out of battery slamfires occur. It does make sense that it is because here the bolt has its highest forward velocity and yet, it has to de accelerate to go into battery. The firing pin , of course, has the same velocity of the bolt, but on cam down, being free floating, it continues to move forward and it will rebound off the primer. If the bolt has to stop to crunch fit a long or a fat case that firing pin is rebounding off the back of the primer at its highest velocity and the lugs are not engaged.
That is why it is best practice to small base size cases used in these rifles and to set up the dies with a case gage and size to gage minimum. (Assuming you don’t know the headspace of your chamber, if you do, always be 0.002 to 0.003” less) You want the bolt to close without resistance. This will reduce the risk of an out of battery slamfire assuming an overly sensitive primer. You can still have an inbattery slamfire given an overly sensitive primer, also an undesirable event, but an inbattery slamfire is less likely to blow off the back of your receiver, blow the bolt face off, rip off the elevation knob, and split the stock in two.
If you attempt to small base size with a spray on lube you will stick the case in the die. I recommend RCBS water soluble or Imperial Sizing wax. These are excellent lubes.
For these rifles it is good practice to ensure ream primer pockets to depth, seat the primers by hand, and verify that all of the primers are below the primer pocket. There is a chance that a cocked primer, with the anvil firmly seated on something, could ignite when hit by the bolt fact. Clean those pockets! High primers are one of the most common cause of misfires because the primer won't fire unless the anvil is seated and is pushed up into the primer cake. http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/ However, given a shallow pocket, given debris in the pocket, it is possible that high a primer could be ignited by the bolt face.
After seating primers examine the back of the case and see if there are high or cocked primers.
It is also safety critical to use the least sensitive primer around because these rifles will slamfire in battery or worse, out of battery, given a sensitive enough primer.
Federal primers are the most sensitive primer on the market and the most "slamfiring" primer in Garands. I have lots of web accounts of slamfires with Federal primers. Don’t use them. I recommend CCI #34s and Tula7.62 primers as they considered "Mil Spec" primers. Which means they are less sensitive than commercial primers, federal are the most sensitive commercial primer on the market
Slamfires are a low probability event, but they do happen. The DTIC document :
Comparison Test of Rifles 7.62 mm, M14, Manufactured by Springfield Armory and Harrington and Richardson Arms Company, July 1963 has the only credible data that can be used in estimating out of battery slamfire probabilities. In this test six new M14’s were undergoing various tests. Each was to be fired 6000 rounds each. One Springfield Arsenal M14 slamfired out of battery at round 5271. Based on this, I estimate that the probability of a slamfire with military spec primers is 1:35,000 per round fired. The slamfire risk with more sensitive commercial primers would be higher.
When firing single shot, use a SLED. Do not put a round in the chamber and drop the bolt. Lots of inbattery slamfires, and a few out of battery, have happened because of this. You want to slow the bolt down. When rounds feed from the clip the friction between cartridges slows the bolt a bit. You want to use a SLED as that slows the bolt a bit.
If loading a Garand without a SLED, lower the bolt about 1” over the follower and let go. Always get your hand out of the way so that if the mechanism slamfires the operating rod does not cut through the palm of your hand.
Use powders that are close to IMR 4895 in burning rate or just use IMR 4895. This mechanism will be over accelerated if gas port pressures are too high. This will happen with powders that are too slow, such as IMR 4350, or loads that are too high pressure. This round pre dates WW2 and was not a magnum round and the commercial round is loaded to pressures higher than the service round. Reference b. recommends choosing powders that have burning rates between IMR3031 and IMR4320. This includes powders such as IMR 4064, and Winchester 748. Accurate Arms stated that AA2520, AA2495 and 2700 are their best powders for the M1 Garands. AA2700 appears to be a slow burning powder, listed as even slower than IMR 4350, but Accurate Arms told me, that because it is a ball powder, the pressure curve has dropped enough that port pressures are not excessive for a Garand. The first lots of AA2700 that Accurate Arms sold were actually surplus WC852 and that powder was used in 30-06 ball ammunition and tested in Garands. I believe the first choice of powders are IMR 4985, H4895, AA2495. In the 30-06. I have used a load of 168 grain Sierra Match, 47.0 grains IMR4895, LC cases, and CCI #34 primers OAL 3.300” for years. I am a consistent winner at club matches with this load. This is a great target load, should be considered a maximum load, does not hurt a thing to cut it a grain or two. The maximum bullet weight to use in these mechanisms would be a 175 grain, I don’t recommend any heavier. National Match ammunition was loaded at 2640 fps with a nominal bullet weight of 173 grains.
In the 308 Garand/M1a the staple was a 168 grain 41.5 grains IMR 4895, LC cases, CCI #34, OAL LT 2.800
If you can’t find CCI #34 or Tula7.62 primers then you have to use primers of commercial sensitivity and the risk of a slamfire increases, but I don’t know how much. I do not recommend Federals in this mechanism, I don’t recommend the new brass colored WLR, CCI 200 seems to have a harder cup than other commercial primers, I have never tried Remington primers, no opinion. I have conducted my own primer tests to see what happened over the chronograph, personally I am a fan of the Russian primers, they shoot very well.
Notice that ball ammunition is not that hot, and neither is Lake City National Match.
M1 Garand BMR Receiver Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist
150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball
14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F
Ave Vel = 2545
Std Dev = 20
ES = 68
Low = 2513
High = 2581
N= 8
174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2592
Std Dev = 28
ES = 103
High = 2647
Low = 2544
N = 10
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI #34 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2632
Std Dev = 20
ES = 60
High = 2671
Low = 2611
N = 10
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Tula 7.62 lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2582
Std Dev = 15
ES = 49
High = 2602
Low = 2553
N = 10
excellent group
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Wolf NCLR lot 18-09 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2607
Std Dev = 17
ES = 57
High = 2642
Low = 2585
N = 10
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM WLR (Nickle) OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2650
Std Dev = 19
ES = 68
High = 2688
Low = 2620
N = 10
Very good group
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI200 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2599
Std Dev = 22
ES = 75
High = 2637
Low = 2562
N = 10
Very good group
A source for the old NRA recommended loads, for bullet weights other than 168 or 174 can be found here. http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm I load my 150’s with 47.5 grains IMR 4895 instead of a max recommendation of 49 grains. I have chronographed and tested all my loads, a 150 SMK with 47.5 grains IMR 4895 is moving just at 2725 fps, and that is as fast as I want a 150 grain bullet to go in this mechanism, regardless of what someone else may say.
Check cartridges for case head separation. Gas guns are hard on brass: the bolt unlocks while there is still significant chamber pressure. Because of this the case gets stretched on extraction. Carefully inspect cases for stretch ring marks at five reloads. They occur about .4” of an inch ahead of the base. You can verify if the cases are internally necking by inserting a bent paperclip in the case, and feeling for an edge.
A number of shooters claim various case lives in the M1 or M1A. Some have case head separations about the fifth reload, others have taken their cases up to ten reloads. The useful lifetime of a case is determined by case head separations, case neck splitting, or primer pocket enlargement. When any one of these failure mechanisms happens to a case, it has exceeded its operational lifetime. In my experience, US military brass holds up better than commercial cases. But this is a broad generalization. You want to use heavy cases over light cases.
References:
a. The Mysterious Slam-Fire, American Rifleman, Oct 1983
b. Reloading for the M1 Rifle, American Rifleman, Mar 1986
1. Full length resize in a small base die
2. Trim cases
3. Clean primer pockets, ream to depth
4. Prime all cases by hand, verify that all primers are below the case head, and use the least sensitive primers you can find.
5. Use IMR4895/AA2495/H4895 powders.
6. Seat the bullets to magazine depth, no longer than 3.3” inches for the 30-06, no longer than 2.8 for the 308, shorter is fine.
There are important safety considerations when reloading for Garands, M1as, and M1 Carbines. All of these rifles are functionally similar in that they all have a free floating firing pin. The risk in all mechanisms with free floating firing pins is that incidental contact between the firing pin and primer can cause cartridge ignition, or a “slamfire”. You can search the web and every mechanism with a free floating firing pin has a posted slamfire incident. This includes AK47s, SKSs, French rifles, etc, etc, etc. The worst case slamfire is a slamfire that occurs out of battery, this will result in a catastrophic failure of the mechanism. The Garand mechanism has the most out of battery slamfires of any rifle on the market, and this is due to the lack of a positive mechanical firing pin lock or blocking device. All of the Garand based mechanisms share a firing pin retraction cam, this cam pulls the firing pin back during extraction. It also has limited utility as a safety device, because it blocks to a limited extent the firing pin going forward, but that only happens in the last 0.007” of movement. Long or tight rounds totally defeat the firing pin retraction’s cam ability to hold back the firing before cam down. Given an overly sensitive primer, one that will go off when struck by a rebounding firing pin, if you sized your round smaller than the chamber the odds would will be in your favor to have an in battery slamfire.
Only at final cam down is the firing pin retracted. Up to then the firing pin is totally free floating and tapping the heck out of the primer.
This is a M1 Carbine firing pin retraction cam.
A M1 Garand firing pin retraction cam is functionally identical, just the carbine is easier to visually understand.
Firing pins in this mechanism are free floating and the mechanism does not have a positive mechanical interlock to prevent incidental contact between the free floating firing pin and the primer. As can be seen here, that bolt has around three inches of travel before the firing pin tang touches the retraction cam.
This is a M1 Garand receiver and the firing pin is fully forward and just touching the firing pin retraction cam. As you can see there is only thousand's of an inch of forward movement left in bolt cam down and yet the firing pin is out about 0.064" of the bolt face.
It turns out that cam down is the point at which out of battery slamfires occur. It does make sense that it is because here the bolt has its highest forward velocity and yet, it has to de accelerate to go into battery. The firing pin , of course, has the same velocity of the bolt, but on cam down, being free floating, it continues to move forward and it will rebound off the primer. If the bolt has to stop to crunch fit a long or a fat case that firing pin is rebounding off the back of the primer at its highest velocity and the lugs are not engaged.
That is why it is best practice to small base size cases used in these rifles and to set up the dies with a case gage and size to gage minimum. (Assuming you don’t know the headspace of your chamber, if you do, always be 0.002 to 0.003” less) You want the bolt to close without resistance. This will reduce the risk of an out of battery slamfire assuming an overly sensitive primer. You can still have an inbattery slamfire given an overly sensitive primer, also an undesirable event, but an inbattery slamfire is less likely to blow off the back of your receiver, blow the bolt face off, rip off the elevation knob, and split the stock in two.
If you attempt to small base size with a spray on lube you will stick the case in the die. I recommend RCBS water soluble or Imperial Sizing wax. These are excellent lubes.
For these rifles it is good practice to ensure ream primer pockets to depth, seat the primers by hand, and verify that all of the primers are below the primer pocket. There is a chance that a cocked primer, with the anvil firmly seated on something, could ignite when hit by the bolt fact. Clean those pockets! High primers are one of the most common cause of misfires because the primer won't fire unless the anvil is seated and is pushed up into the primer cake. http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/ However, given a shallow pocket, given debris in the pocket, it is possible that high a primer could be ignited by the bolt face.
After seating primers examine the back of the case and see if there are high or cocked primers.
It is also safety critical to use the least sensitive primer around because these rifles will slamfire in battery or worse, out of battery, given a sensitive enough primer.
Federal primers are the most sensitive primer on the market and the most "slamfiring" primer in Garands. I have lots of web accounts of slamfires with Federal primers. Don’t use them. I recommend CCI #34s and Tula7.62 primers as they considered "Mil Spec" primers. Which means they are less sensitive than commercial primers, federal are the most sensitive commercial primer on the market
Slamfires are a low probability event, but they do happen. The DTIC document :
Comparison Test of Rifles 7.62 mm, M14, Manufactured by Springfield Armory and Harrington and Richardson Arms Company, July 1963 has the only credible data that can be used in estimating out of battery slamfire probabilities. In this test six new M14’s were undergoing various tests. Each was to be fired 6000 rounds each. One Springfield Arsenal M14 slamfired out of battery at round 5271. Based on this, I estimate that the probability of a slamfire with military spec primers is 1:35,000 per round fired. The slamfire risk with more sensitive commercial primers would be higher.
When firing single shot, use a SLED. Do not put a round in the chamber and drop the bolt. Lots of inbattery slamfires, and a few out of battery, have happened because of this. You want to slow the bolt down. When rounds feed from the clip the friction between cartridges slows the bolt a bit. You want to use a SLED as that slows the bolt a bit.
If loading a Garand without a SLED, lower the bolt about 1” over the follower and let go. Always get your hand out of the way so that if the mechanism slamfires the operating rod does not cut through the palm of your hand.
Use powders that are close to IMR 4895 in burning rate or just use IMR 4895. This mechanism will be over accelerated if gas port pressures are too high. This will happen with powders that are too slow, such as IMR 4350, or loads that are too high pressure. This round pre dates WW2 and was not a magnum round and the commercial round is loaded to pressures higher than the service round. Reference b. recommends choosing powders that have burning rates between IMR3031 and IMR4320. This includes powders such as IMR 4064, and Winchester 748. Accurate Arms stated that AA2520, AA2495 and 2700 are their best powders for the M1 Garands. AA2700 appears to be a slow burning powder, listed as even slower than IMR 4350, but Accurate Arms told me, that because it is a ball powder, the pressure curve has dropped enough that port pressures are not excessive for a Garand. The first lots of AA2700 that Accurate Arms sold were actually surplus WC852 and that powder was used in 30-06 ball ammunition and tested in Garands. I believe the first choice of powders are IMR 4985, H4895, AA2495. In the 30-06. I have used a load of 168 grain Sierra Match, 47.0 grains IMR4895, LC cases, and CCI #34 primers OAL 3.300” for years. I am a consistent winner at club matches with this load. This is a great target load, should be considered a maximum load, does not hurt a thing to cut it a grain or two. The maximum bullet weight to use in these mechanisms would be a 175 grain, I don’t recommend any heavier. National Match ammunition was loaded at 2640 fps with a nominal bullet weight of 173 grains.
In the 308 Garand/M1a the staple was a 168 grain 41.5 grains IMR 4895, LC cases, CCI #34, OAL LT 2.800
If you can’t find CCI #34 or Tula7.62 primers then you have to use primers of commercial sensitivity and the risk of a slamfire increases, but I don’t know how much. I do not recommend Federals in this mechanism, I don’t recommend the new brass colored WLR, CCI 200 seems to have a harder cup than other commercial primers, I have never tried Remington primers, no opinion. I have conducted my own primer tests to see what happened over the chronograph, personally I am a fan of the Russian primers, they shoot very well.
Notice that ball ammunition is not that hot, and neither is Lake City National Match.
M1 Garand BMR Receiver Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist
150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball
14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F
Ave Vel = 2545
Std Dev = 20
ES = 68
Low = 2513
High = 2581
N= 8
174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2592
Std Dev = 28
ES = 103
High = 2647
Low = 2544
N = 10
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI #34 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2632
Std Dev = 20
ES = 60
High = 2671
Low = 2611
N = 10
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Tula 7.62 lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2582
Std Dev = 15
ES = 49
High = 2602
Low = 2553
N = 10
excellent group
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Wolf NCLR lot 18-09 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2607
Std Dev = 17
ES = 57
High = 2642
Low = 2585
N = 10
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM WLR (Nickle) OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2650
Std Dev = 19
ES = 68
High = 2688
Low = 2620
N = 10
Very good group
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI200 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel = 2599
Std Dev = 22
ES = 75
High = 2637
Low = 2562
N = 10
Very good group
A source for the old NRA recommended loads, for bullet weights other than 168 or 174 can be found here. http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm I load my 150’s with 47.5 grains IMR 4895 instead of a max recommendation of 49 grains. I have chronographed and tested all my loads, a 150 SMK with 47.5 grains IMR 4895 is moving just at 2725 fps, and that is as fast as I want a 150 grain bullet to go in this mechanism, regardless of what someone else may say.
Check cartridges for case head separation. Gas guns are hard on brass: the bolt unlocks while there is still significant chamber pressure. Because of this the case gets stretched on extraction. Carefully inspect cases for stretch ring marks at five reloads. They occur about .4” of an inch ahead of the base. You can verify if the cases are internally necking by inserting a bent paperclip in the case, and feeling for an edge.
A number of shooters claim various case lives in the M1 or M1A. Some have case head separations about the fifth reload, others have taken their cases up to ten reloads. The useful lifetime of a case is determined by case head separations, case neck splitting, or primer pocket enlargement. When any one of these failure mechanisms happens to a case, it has exceeded its operational lifetime. In my experience, US military brass holds up better than commercial cases. But this is a broad generalization. You want to use heavy cases over light cases.
References:
a. The Mysterious Slam-Fire, American Rifleman, Oct 1983
b. Reloading for the M1 Rifle, American Rifleman, Mar 1986
condor bravo
New member
Mr. T:
The point behind the concept of CCI primers helping to prevent slam fires relates to the harder CCI primer requiring more energy from the floating firing pin to set off the primer (especially with the primer pockets cut to maximum depth) than it would take to set off softer primers (like Federals). We're talking about proper primer depth seating of course, not high primers which are just asking for a slam fire. My use with the CCI primer is the standard 200, not the milspec magnum primer. Usually don't have much of an opportunity for the Federal cases primer pockets to loosen since the cases are generally here today, gone tomorrow. But I much prefer the tighter bullet fit when seating into Federal cases rather than Remingtons and Winchesters.
The point behind the concept of CCI primers helping to prevent slam fires relates to the harder CCI primer requiring more energy from the floating firing pin to set off the primer (especially with the primer pockets cut to maximum depth) than it would take to set off softer primers (like Federals). We're talking about proper primer depth seating of course, not high primers which are just asking for a slam fire. My use with the CCI primer is the standard 200, not the milspec magnum primer. Usually don't have much of an opportunity for the Federal cases primer pockets to loosen since the cases are generally here today, gone tomorrow. But I much prefer the tighter bullet fit when seating into Federal cases rather than Remingtons and Winchesters.
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c.b.,
The CCI #34 is identical to a CCI 250, except that, as CCI told me, they widened the angle of the anvil legs. That's how they reduce the sensitivity of what would otherwise be a 250 to the military spec levels shown below. The CCI 200 and 250 are both more sensitive than that.
Slamfires and OOB fires caused by excessive primer sensitivity are unusual, but you get a lot of folks declaring the military spec primer is nonsense or just a sales gimmick because they, personally, have never had a problem with standard primers in a floating firing pin rifle, nor has anyone they know. That is an example of anecdotal evidence. It is like saying that just because neither you nor anyone else you know has ever been in a plane crash, you shouldn't believe plane crashes are possible and that precautions taken against plane crashes are a waste of time and money or are a sales gimmick.
The CCI #34 is identical to a CCI 250, except that, as CCI told me, they widened the angle of the anvil legs. That's how they reduce the sensitivity of what would otherwise be a 250 to the military spec levels shown below. The CCI 200 and 250 are both more sensitive than that.
Slamfires and OOB fires caused by excessive primer sensitivity are unusual, but you get a lot of folks declaring the military spec primer is nonsense or just a sales gimmick because they, personally, have never had a problem with standard primers in a floating firing pin rifle, nor has anyone they know. That is an example of anecdotal evidence. It is like saying that just because neither you nor anyone else you know has ever been in a plane crash, you shouldn't believe plane crashes are possible and that precautions taken against plane crashes are a waste of time and money or are a sales gimmick.
In this case, the poster is a CCI hater. He defames mil spec primers because CCI is the only US manufacturer offering their mil spec large rifle primers to the public. If someone has a slamfire and is killed or injured, or a valuable firearm is ruined, than that is the price he will willing to pay to hurt CCI.
Might also be because of all the fuss he can stir up. When psychopaths get bored, for their amusement, they stir up a little trouble, sit back and laugh at the people they manipulated. Shows them how smart they are and how dumb everyone else is.
condor bravo
New member
I completely fail to follow the interpretation in Slamfire's post leading to the conclusion that the previous poster is a CCI hater. Just seems like explaining how it is with CCIs, nothing there to defame or to take an exception to. Most of the readers of the above post must really be head scratching over that one. Perhaps Slamfire would like to post some additional explanation.
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swan_derek
New member
Thanks
Great info thanks. I thought you had to keep the bullets around 150-165 grains
Great info thanks. I thought you had to keep the bullets around 150-165 grains
condor bravo
New member
No not really confined to the lighter bullets since the appropriate mid-burn rate powders like the popular 4895 and 4064 allow sufficient velocities with appropriate chamber pressures along with a variety of bullet weights with similar powder charges, while at the same time maintaining appropriate port pressure to keep from bending the system's operating rod. It is said that you don't particularly want to have to replace an operating rod. The burning question might be: was the Garand's gas operating system made to be used with an already existing 4895 powder; or was 4895 developed specifically for operating the existing Garand? Probably no one will lose much sleep over the burning answer. Good thing we Garand owners don't have to turn in our guns because of not knowing the answer.
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I use IMR4064 almost exclusively for M1 loads....great accuracy and is about the slowest powder within the right pressure curve. 168SMK bullets I load around 47 gr, 150gr around 48.5-49.0. I always use a primer pocket uniformer during the first processing, and CCI 250 primers.
edit...stated wrong primer
edit...stated wrong primer
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