M1 Carbine

SundownRider

New member
I'm looking to purchase an M1 Carbine in th enear future, but as I browsed the listings at Gunbroker, I noticed that there were a lot of manufacturers and a huge range of prices.
I was wondering which brands were ones to look for and ones to avoid
I saw Inland, Universal, Underwood, Plainfield, and something called IAI
Prices went from over a grand to as little as $250.
I even saw what one thought to be stainless.

I consider myself to be an educated man and as such, relaize when to defer to those more knowledgable than myslef.

Any help or info would be greatly appreciated.
 

Manedwolf

Moderator
Universal are not GI-issue carbines. They were civilian copies made in the 1960's and sold through retail places like Sears. Fit and finish isn't as good, and they're worth a LOT less than the GI-issue ones.
 
I've seen paratrooper folding, & pistol versions, but never a stainless ( unless your talkng about a 30 Carbine Automag 3 pistol :D )... maybe someone is hard chromng like the CZ-52's ???
 

News Shooter

New member
If I might make a suggestion

Go to www.odcmp.com and take a look at the offerings of original military versions of the carbine. Unless you are looking for a bargain the civilian copies leave a bit to be desired. You should also look up the history of the carbine on the web and read up on the military versions. Most of the military versions were contracted to several US factories during and after WW II.

It's not only a great shooting gun, it's a piece of history.

This is also a good site
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl08-e.htm
 
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FS2K

New member
Boy are you gonna LOVE this gun.

Sundown,

As manedwolf mentioned "Universal" brand carbines are M1 Carbine clones. Kahr/Auto Ordinance is the only company I know of at the moment that's producing new M1 Carbines. Fulton Armory sells accurate re-productions of the M1 Carbine that they claim are the closest thing to going back in time and purchasing a new one in 1943.
The reason why there are so many manefacturers of the M1 Carbine is because allot of companies were contracted to build them during war-time, including General Motors. Here's a list. Of course the less produced the harder to find, and ths part of the reason for the price differences.

M1 Carbine Production
Inland Manufacturing Division, G.M.C...... 2,632,097 43.0%
Winchester Repeating Arms Co................ 828,059 13.5%
Underwood-Elliot-Fisher Co.................. 545,616 8.9%
* Saginaw Steering Gear Div., G.M.C........... 517,212 8.5%
** National Postal Meter Co.................... 413,017 6.8%
*** Quality Hardware & Machine Co............... 359,666 5.9%
International Business Machines Corp (IBM).. 346,500 5.7%
Standard Products Co........................ 247,160 4.0%
Rock-Ola Co................................. 228,500 3.7%
---------
Total: 6,221,220

* Note that Saginaw had two plants in operation, one in Saginaw, MI and one in Grand Rapids, MI. The Grand Rapids facility assumed a contract that had been originally awarded to Irwin-Pedersen Arms Co....I-P had assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government.

**Note that a few early NPM receivers are marked "Rochester", for the Rochester Defence Corp. A very few late receivers are marked "CCC", for Commecial Controls Corp.

***Note that some Quality Hardware carbines were assembled using receivers made by Union Switch & Signal Co, hence the "UN-QUALITY" marked carbines. These are highly prized by some carbine aficionados.
 

Tom2

New member
I recall reading that Plainfield or IJ or someone made some stainless carbines, or listed them for sale, I cannot remember ever handling one but maybe I did. I would stick with GI guns as with commercials, you never know how good the gun is. Then again that can happen with GI, too, if someone put one together with some or alot of worn out junk parts. But mine is all GI and is a great little carbine. Some folks get ahold of a crappy commercial gun that has problems then get a bad taste for the guns as a whole, which is unfair, as the GI guns seem super reliable to me with good ammo and nothing out of tolerance(like crappy mags) or junk ammo.
 

gak

New member
In addition to other's learned remarks, there is also what is known as the "import" which really is a re-import (back into the U.S.) of original GI carbines that were "given" to friendly foreign governments over time -- mostly in the 50s and 60s... While you may land one that is a good shooter and can otherwise be cleaned up reasonably well (and therefore can represent a sort of bargain), they are typically valued much less due to their questionable/unknown history of use/abuse/neglect/storage conditions, etc--which is often borne out by their internal and external condition. Examination of some of these often reveals rough exteriors but perfectly servicable interiors..so they're worth checking out when you run across one--especially in this day of inflated prices on non-import GIs. These are usually characterized by a barrel with an arsenal stamp such as "Blue Sky" or sometimes no markings at all (i.e., no manufacturer - at least of the barrel - such as Inland, etc., and no date). While most experts agree that clean original (non import) carbines should be pretty much left alone - re reblue'ing, etc. - with maybe just some oil on the wood to refresh, etc., these "imports" can be a good excuse to ignore all that stuff and have at a nice restoration, with new wood, a re-blue'ing or parkerizing, etc. Doesn't mean it'll pay off in $$ in the short term, but you'll have a keeper in terms of pride and fun of ownership - for less.

Carbines that are all "original parts" like Corvettes with original numbers, of course go highest - asssuming good overall condition, but also some that are fairly rough. However, do not be discouraged necessarily by one that has gone through a "re-fit" which is what many did after WWII - to be, minimally, fit with updated safety (the flip variety that didn't appear til the end of the war), bayonette lug (ditto), and in some cases the windage adjustable ramp sight that appeared on most carbines after 1943--on 1942-43 variants. In addition, a refit may have replaced/swapped barrels or receivers, trigger groups, etc., of different manufacturers (original contractors). Since the carbine was designed to be nearly 100% interchangeable parts between all the contractors, generally this is no big deal - but shouldn't command the very highest price of the "all originals."

So, most of the "original looking" (not necessarily meaning original-original parts) GIs have been refit by now "legitimately" by a Government contractor -- and the above configuration (either with swapped parts or not) is what the preponderance of them ended up being headed into the Korean War.

If someone didn't already mention, IAI is a "true import" meaning Israeli Arms Industries (I believe I got that right)....they're "ok" but have the cheap birch - if that? - stocks of the lesser Auto Ordnance/Kahr models (which have a walnut option)...and are probably somewhere inbetween the Universals/Plainfields/Ivers and the genuine article. I am not an expert on these (or others for that matter), so others may chime in here to correct me.
 

T. O'Heir

New member
The Plainfields, Universals, Kahr's and IAI's are commercial copies. Of these the Plainfield is the best one. It's an exact copy of the military carbine. Milsurp parts fit with no fuss. Iver Johnson bought them out in 1977 and continued to make them under their name until they closed too. The original Plainfield is better. It'll have Plainfield Machine Corp stamped on it. No SS Carbines by Plainfield or IJ.
There are two models on the Universal. Early and late. The Early ones are ok. The Late models are junk. Late models have two return springs, a toggle for the bolt hold open and a really poorly stamped op handle.
IAI are reported to have been made in Israel and assemble in Texas. The QC was iffy. Kahr apparently made some of their receivers, then decided to sell their own version.
The Kahr hasn't been around long enough to know how good it is one way or the other.
 

TPAW

New member
Rock-Ola Co

Least amount made and most desirable. Considering condition on equal level with others, it is worth more. Not many around compared to others, and those that are, bring top dollar.
 

TWB

New member
gak says
So, most of the "original looking" (not necessarily meaning original-original parts) GIs have been refit by now "legitimately" by a Government contractor

SundownRider asks a question I have wondered about for a long time, but the answers bring up more questions. If the gun is rebuilt by government armorers, is it still considered a "brand" such as SundownRider talks about? If these are no longer a 'brand" what do you look for as good or bad signs? Does it matter if all the parts are mixed? What is a reasonable price for a good shooter?
 

gak

New member
The guns rebuilt or refit by government contractors (mostly military arsenals well prior to the Korean War) - for the purpose of reissue to troops - are fine. Many, many of the GIs out there now are this way...and you;ll find all sorts that have Inland receivers with Saginaw or Winchester barrels, or vice versa, etc.... They are still considered GI - just not as collectible as ones that either were entirely untouched or during a refit did not have any major parts swapped out just ones added (such as the bayonette lug and flip safety etc) and these should be fine shooters...and certainly "better," much more collectible and worth more than any of the commercial guns. There are GI "imports" (re-imports) out there that have never had any parts swapped, meaning still with Inland receiver and barrel match intact, etc. Most of these had already been refit with the above (small) features stateside before ever going abroad...and made their way back without any additional tinkering.
Later EDIT: I'd still choose a good swapped parts GI before an "import" (Blue Sky) 8 - maybe 9 - out of 10 times.
 
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TWB

New member
gak, Thanks, I appreciate the information. The one I shot was a lot of fun, and it strikes me they would make excellent HD and car guns.

Thanks again,
twb
 

gak

New member
TWB - especially with SPs makes a great HD/SD gun. Use the ball stuff (fmj) for target and plinking.
 

Hawg

New member
Who sells M1 carbines as C&R eligible?

Don't know who sells them under C&R but they must be USGI to qualify. The IJ's, Plainfields and Universals do not qualify for C&R.
 
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