M 14 looks Any traditionalists still out there?

[44 AMP]

I was looking at some pictures of the "new" M 14s, with the collapsing stocks, covered with rails, and those "monopod" vertical foregrips. And much as I didn't care for them, I realised that what bothered me more was the short barrels.

Now, I realise our troops are constantly climbing into and out of vehicles, and the nature of warfare today means that all those rails to hang accessories on are a useful addition, so I know why they have done it, but I just don't like the looks of it.

I am old school (and old besides) in this regard, but I have always felt one thing that makes the M14 a good rifle is the fact that it is a rifle. The 22" barrel gets as much as possible from the cartridge. Cutting the barrel back 6" or so loses velocity, which is the primary advantage of the rifle. And to me, it just looks wrong.

Sure, our troops need something short and handy for CQB, which is why the M16 (which was already a carbine length) has turned into the M4, but I feel that chopping the M14 down to minimum length is just going too far, and doing it to the wrong rifle.

I have .308 carbines, and when they are needed, they are very useful. But when I want a rifle, my M1A serves better. I'm not saying the military shouldn't be doing what they are with their M14s, only that I don't care for the looks of them, and as a civilian who shoots for sport and pleasure, I don't care for that style M14. Anyone else out there agree with me? Or am I a complete loner, trapped in my memories of the past?

Feel free to disagree, after all, I am just looking for opinions.

 

[Candiru]

I agree with you. Part of the appeal of the M14 to me is that it handles and performs like a classic rifle, but provides enough amenities (such as removable magazines, good iron sights, and a semi-automatic action) that it isn't handicapped by its traditional styling. A lot of the complaints directed against the platform focus on what it isn't, and many of the modifications you mention try to turn it into something it was never designed to be. I certainly appreciate that the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are just trying to use what they have on hand, but shoehorning a battle rifle into assault rifle ergonomics is probably not their first choice; they'd be better served with a different rifle altogether.

 

[Wildalaska]

I prefer the classic style, seems better balanced and lighter to me, but I'm just a fat civilian who likes the older styles

WildimgettingretroAlaska ™

 

[King Bear]

Well, I DO like the traditional look of the full sized rifle, but I don't think that's a reason to keep it.

What I DO think the reason is, is that IF you need a 7.62x51, you often need it at range, where you want the rifle. The SOCOMS and such are because so much fighting is done close in. IMO the way to go is to keep full-length M14s for the longer range, DMR type stuff, and just don't have the M14 guy be the door-kicker, there's plenty of guys with M4s in the squad for that duty. Same reason you don't have the M240 or 249 gunner be the first through the door.

 

[wjkuleck]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Sage & Troy stocks (and others, perhaps) perfectly "bed" the action and, in the case of the Troy, effectively free-float the barrel.

Neither of the above is a bad thing.

That having been said, here's my favorite M14, and yes, I have a Mk 14 Mod 0 and a Fulton Armory SOPMOD SASS (Troy-based) and others:

Regards,

Walt
PS Also see the rifle we built for The M14 Complete Assembly Guide

 

[nemoaz]

I would say most of the M1A's out there are in stock configuration. I've seen hundreds of M1A's, all clad in a traditional stock either wood or synthetic. I've never seen one of the mall ninja AR wannabe stocks in person. I think everyone that buys one of those stocks puts the picture on the internet.

 

[Ridge_Runner_5]

I prefer this:

 

[Jason_G]

I prefer the classic style, seems better balanced and lighter to me

+1. I am currently "looking" at the M1A's/M14's, and of the ones I've handled, the ones that I like the most are the full length barrels with the GI contour barrel or the medium weight NM barrels. The full length rifles balanced better and shouldered quicker for me than either of the SOCOM's or the Scout.


Jason

 

[Davis]

I like the classic M14, as I also like the M1 Garand. If you got to add all that other stuff, get an FAL or AR. My opinion only.

Davis

 

[YukonKid]

+1 on classic wood and steel. It's not old school...its just the way things were supposed to be.

YK

 

[Threefeathers]

How traditional is this.

 

[10-96]

+1
Long live tradition and durn the mans' hyde who tries to put foo-foo stuff on my oldies but goodies... I have new stuff if I ever get to hankerin foo-foo stuff.

 

[M14fan]

While I own a Sage stocked model that I like a lot, I will confess that my favorite to handle and look at is a Super Match with a heavy barrel and heavy target stock. My favorite to hunt with however is the Scout Squad. I love the traditional look and also recognize the benefits offerred by things like the Sage. Really have no need for all the rails though.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

I like the old style for two reasons:
1.Why have an m14 with no reach?
2.I want to be inconspicuous. Wood is just much less noticeable than synthetic stocks.

 

[SR420]

Traditional ain't for everybody

Shortening the standard 22.0" barrel by 4.0" has little effect on muzzle velocity and this slightly reduced velocity doesn't show up until 700 yards or so.
I prefer the look and feel of the 18.0" barrel on an M14, it just looks and feels right. I have M14s in traditional trim, but they just don't do anything for me.
I mean, they look like antiques or something you would see in a museum.

As Walt mentioned, SAGE offers much more than looks. The EBR chassis makes an already accurate M14 even more accurate.
The action is tension bedded, the gas system is shimmed tight and the barrel is semi floated forward of the op rod guide block.


Here are a pair of identical M21A5 SEI rifles. One is set up in an EBR stock, the other is in a USGI synthetic.
The most accurate M21A5 will be whichever one happens to be in the SAGE stock.
Also, I prefer the comfort and added versatility of pistol grips over the standard stock.

My favorite M14 with an 18.0" barrel is my MK14 SEI Mod 1

 

[Davis]

Of course, with the bottom setup, long-range accuracy is irrelevant.

Davis

 

[SR420]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to push it past 700 yards or so, but Parajumpers push their Mod 1s beyond that without issue.

 

[Davis]

Naturally, issue in the sandbox is very limited.

Davis

 

[Paochow]

SR420: Awesome pictures as always

I'm a big fan of the Sage stock as well. In addition to all of the benefits already listed, the standard model's adjustable checkpiece gives perfect eye alignment with optics. Once set up, no hunting around for the proper position, just get a check weld and you're set.

 

[Wildalaska]

As Walt mentioned, SAGE offers much more than looks. The EBR chassis makes an already accurate M14 even more accurate.

If I want super accurate, I have my Blaser. My M1A is a SHTF rifle, designed to kill something man size or bigger at ranges up to as far as I can shoot with open sights....

WildiaintcarryingallthoserailsAlaska ™