M-1 Carbine FTF - help!

[yorec]

I met with a friend today at a local range. He had a M-1 Carbine (older surplus rifle) that he had just gotten a few months ago and was shooting it seriously for the first time. He didn't know who made it and I can't read the name stamped ont he back of the reciever - rear sight cover part of it. "INLA**DIV" is as mush as I can make out. Wasn't there an M-1 Carbine manufacturere called Inland? The rifle still had a little cosmoline on it, but appeared clean otherwise.

He had three thirty round magazines and three fifteen rounders. The magazines appeared to be surplus like the rifle, had decent spring tension and no dents, marks etc. The FTF occured randomly with any and/or all of the mags, so I don't expect it to be a magazine problem.

The rifle functioned fairly well, but every now and then it would FTF when the round being fed would hang up on the top edge of the chamber. It would consistantly stop with the edge of the case striking the top portion of the chamber. After removal the jacket would have a smallbend in it where the barrel edge had struck and pressed the brass down - actually folded in over a couple of times.

We examinerd the chamber where it was hanging up closely. There is a bevel around the entrance (Forcing cone or feed ramp?) where a round entering the chamber will strike and be redirected into the chamber. This beveled edge appeared a little rough and dirty to me.

His ammunitions was Winchester 110 gr FMJ. It didn't appear to have a channelure and the brass didn't look cripped very much. I'm sure this intensified the problem, but he fired over three hundred rounds and I can't imagine Winchester making that many boxes that someone forgot to turn on the crimper. But then again they were all from the same lot... (The FTF happened all the way through.)

So I think if this bevel is polished well, mayber even enlarged a touch, it should cut down on this type of malfunction. Or could this be an ammo issue? Help me out here, M-1 Carbine experts and thanks in advance!

 

[Mk VII]

doesn't this cartridge headspace on the case mouth? If so they are not going to crimp it at all, or at most just a taper crimp.
Inland Division of General Motors made a high proportion of the M1 Carbines so this maker is pretty common. It's many years since I had one but I recall the feed ramp being polished.

 

[yankytrash]

The problem is that the rear of the shells are getting hung in the mag, and the front of the bullet is getting swung up before it's released from the top lips of the mag. Now that the painly obvious is out of the way, here's what I've found to be the best fixes:

Try slightly pinching the front feed lips of one of the mags (I'm talkin 1/16" inch or so) together and run 2 or 3 three mag-fulls through it. If that doesn't work, go to step 2:

Try clipping a ring off the mag spring (1 ring is about 3/4" when the spring is extended). If that doesn't work, clip another, then another, then another, until it stops the FTF problem.

I've found that the latter fix is usually the fix. Just be careful not to clip off too much at once.


And above all, PLEASE be careful. The problem you describe will also seat the bullet into the shell casing (which is usually the case), resulting in higher chamber pressures. Keep an eye out for that.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Check the magazines and compare to some Govt. issued 15 rounders. They're probably not surplus and could be one of the thousands of aftermarket mags that flooded the market in the '70s. It was during this period that I learned the hard way not to trust aftermarket products.

 

[Dfariswheel]

The magazines are probably the problem.
There are tons of cheap 30 round magazines out there, and too many of them don't work when new. The 15 rounders may also be new made junk, or just clapped out surplus. Remember, the last GI 15 rounders were made in WWII. You can still buy new GI 15 rounders from a number of places. Try William J. Ricca or some of the people who advertize in Shotgun News. I'll bet a proper mag will solve the problem.

I'd be reluctant to start cutting mag springs, unless you have nothing else to lose. The GI mags were designed to work with the spring AS IS. Shortening will probably result in failures to strip a round off the magazine, and the bolt will close on an empty chamber. If the mags are non-GI junk, bend and clip away, you have nothing to lose.
You might also install a new recoil spring.

The Inland Division, General Motors Corp made the best quality, and largest number of Carbines. General Motors made carbines at several locations, including Inland, and Saginaw. Unless badly worn, it should be a first class rifle. Check the front of the barrel behind the front sight. Unless it's been rebuilt and rebarreled, there should be a General Motors mark, and a date. This is the date the BARREL was made so it's not definately the date the rifle was made, but a good indication.

No GI carbine had a polished feed ramp. None was needed with a good magazine.

Carbine ammo has a taper crimp on the cases since it headspaces on the case mouth.

 

[yankytrash]

Whoa, as I re-read my post, make sure you keep in mind what Dfariswheel said. My post could be mis-construed to mean clip all your springs in all your mags.

Try clipping a ring off the mag spring (1 ring is about 3/4" when the spring is extended). If that doesn't work, clip another, then another, then another, until it stops the FTF problem.

...just wanted you to understand, I was talking about one mag. That way you're only messing up one mag if it doesn't work. My experience has been that about 4 cut rings should do it.

 

[yorec]

Great information so far, thanks guys! Don't worry, Yanky trash, cutting on the gun or mag springs will be my last ditch effort and I did understand what you meant - I've done this before, just not with an M-1 Carbine!

Silly me for thinking that the manufacturer name would only appear on the reciever - there it was bold as brass behind the front sight! The gun is an Inland/General Motors with the barrel manufactured in 10-43! Thanks for that hint.

I didn't think it was a magazine problem becasue he had 6 different magazines and the FTF happened with them all, but if there was a market flood in the 70s like 4V50Gary said, maybe he got a bunch of bad ones - after all the FTF does look like it's caused by a bad mag! There are no markings on these magazines, so how could I tell if they are GI mags - are they supposed to be stamped on the floorplate like an AR mag?

In the meantime I'll try pinching the front feed lips a bit and shoot it tomarrow to see if it helps! I'll post back to let you know - thanks again...

 

[Rocklobster]

A Wolff extra-tension recoil spring fixed my Inland...

 

[Dfariswheel]

All GI mags are marked with a maker's mark of some kind. They will be marked on the flat, lower rear of the mag. There are so many I can't list them all but some examples: IU, IN, SEY,
IJ, SG, etc. Many GI 30 rounders were marked SEY for Seymore products. Commercial 30 round mags are almost always marked M2. No GI mags were marked this way.

Since you had trouble seeing the manufacturer's mark under the sight, this means it was upgraded with an adjustable rear sight. The earlier carbines used a simple flip sight, that was somewhat smaller. The larger adjustable sight covers the marking, sometime so much, that the serial number was sometimes re-stamped IN FRONT of the rear sight.

Other possible causes for the rifle failing to feed: A weak recoil spring, or a dirty gas piston. Before bending or cutting check the mags for GI marks. If so marked, try cleaning the gas piston, and/or replace the recoil spring.

 

[yorec]

Just posting back to let you guys who helped out with suggestions know what happened.

We've been shooting the Inland for the past couple of days figuring out just what the problem is. We've come to the conclusion that he has 3 aftermarket mags - probably junk from that 70s glut - and 3 GI mags. The after market mags jam frequently and the GI mags have had only a couple of jams like this. I'll work on bending the aftermarket feed lips into shape later.

Conclusions: Friend needs to buy some more GI mags. And I've gotta buy an M1 Carbine - what a sweet little rifle!

 

[RayVet]

Consider replacing the magazine catch. A worn one will cause the mag to hang loose, or tilt and result in failure to feeds. The M2 catch is strudier than the M1, (to hold the heavier 30 rounders) and is the desired replacement. Compare the tightness (or looseness) of your mag, with a Carbine that functions correctly... Good luck...

Cheers Ray