Luger (P.08) rifling
- Thread starter 44 AMP
- Start date
Does anyone know if there are any other 9mms that use the same rifling as the P.08? Does the Walther P.38?? I know Colt is 1-16", S&W is 1in 10, etc.,
The reason this came up was a question from a friend. There have been a number of shooting incidents (mostly drive by shootings) in the Seattle area lately. Police have stated they have evidence that appears to link a single gun to several of them (possibly 9).
A reporter for a Seattle paper said, (based on what the police told him) that the gun is a 9mm Luger. The reporter went on to say how the Luger is a Nazi gun, long out of production, etc., and how someone is running around doing the shootings with this antique weapon.
So, my friend asked what was the rifling in a Luger, and does anything else use the same rifling?? His thought was perhaps the police have some bullets, and if the Luger rifling is unique, they might be IDing the gun as a luger, based on that.
We discussed markings on the fired cases, and I checked, my Lugers do not leave any clear distinctive markings to say "this was fired in a Luger", unlike Glocks, or Sigs, which do have easily visible, distinctive marks from firing.
What I think the reporter did was ask the police, who told him the gun they were looking for was a 9mm Luger, meaning the caliber, and the bright soul google/Wiki'd "9mm Luger pistol". When you do that, the first thing you get is the P.08 Luger.
Personally, I think the idea of some street punk doing drive by's with a Luger is a bit far fetched. My friend thinks it would be a miracle if the punk got the Luger to run, and keep running.
With the 9mm Luger caliber being about the most common centerfire pistol round on the planet today, I think the odds of the 9mm in question actually being a P.08 Luger are slim, and the reporter is a clueless idiot. But that's just my opinion.
Could the police have evidence the gun is a Luger, without having to gun itself? I think its very doubtful. Possible, but doubtful.
The reason this came up was a question from a friend. There have been a number of shooting incidents (mostly drive by shootings) in the Seattle area lately. Police have stated they have evidence that appears to link a single gun to several of them (possibly 9).
A reporter for a Seattle paper said, (based on what the police told him) that the gun is a 9mm Luger. The reporter went on to say how the Luger is a Nazi gun, long out of production, etc., and how someone is running around doing the shootings with this antique weapon.
So, my friend asked what was the rifling in a Luger, and does anything else use the same rifling?? His thought was perhaps the police have some bullets, and if the Luger rifling is unique, they might be IDing the gun as a luger, based on that.
We discussed markings on the fired cases, and I checked, my Lugers do not leave any clear distinctive markings to say "this was fired in a Luger", unlike Glocks, or Sigs, which do have easily visible, distinctive marks from firing.
What I think the reporter did was ask the police, who told him the gun they were looking for was a 9mm Luger, meaning the caliber, and the bright soul google/Wiki'd "9mm Luger pistol". When you do that, the first thing you get is the P.08 Luger.
Personally, I think the idea of some street punk doing drive by's with a Luger is a bit far fetched. My friend thinks it would be a miracle if the punk got the Luger to run, and keep running.
With the 9mm Luger caliber being about the most common centerfire pistol round on the planet today, I think the odds of the 9mm in question actually being a P.08 Luger are slim, and the reporter is a clueless idiot. But that's just my opinion.
Could the police have evidence the gun is a Luger, without having to gun itself? I think its very doubtful. Possible, but doubtful.
Jim Watson
New member
There are a lot of European 9mms with that twist, and I am sure there are a number with 6 grooves conventional.
Sig Sauer is listed at 6 groove 10 twist and CZ at 6 groove 9.7 twist. Probably both really spec'ed at 4 turns per meter, 9.8" since they are made in foreign lands under the French system of measurement. Doubt even Emily Procter could tell the difference from a recovered bullet anyhow.
Likewise bore/groove dimensions would be hard to get precisely from a jacketed bullet.
If a reporter or cop with no firearms experience besides training on department approved weapons picked up a case and read the headstamp "9mm Luger" you can see where they might get the idea it was a Luger PISTOL.
Sig Sauer is listed at 6 groove 10 twist and CZ at 6 groove 9.7 twist. Probably both really spec'ed at 4 turns per meter, 9.8" since they are made in foreign lands under the French system of measurement. Doubt even Emily Procter could tell the difference from a recovered bullet anyhow.
Likewise bore/groove dimensions would be hard to get precisely from a jacketed bullet.
If a reporter or cop with no firearms experience besides training on department approved weapons picked up a case and read the headstamp "9mm Luger" you can see where they might get the idea it was a Luger PISTOL.
Obviously, criminal use of a Luger pistol can't be ruled out, but I tend to think like 44 Amp that there was a communications gap between the police firearms identification expert and the reporter. Few news reporters know anything about guns (and displaying such knowledge can get a reporter fired by an anti-gun editor) so they ask equally ignorant police, some of whom don't even know what kind of "piece" they are carrying.
Jim
Jim
Semper Paratus
New member
Could be a 9mm Luger or 9mm Parabellum or a 9mmx19 round not the pistol itself.
I got halfway through your post and all I could say to myself was "FACEPALM, this has got to be some idiot news turkey who ran off screaming due to terminology" but I only had to read another sentence or two of your thoughts to see that you figured that as well.
As we have seen so often...
The simple answer is typically the correct one. But I am subscribed now so I do hope that you'll update.
On the side of tinfoil conspiracy theories however, there certainly has been a lot of "Confederate Flag/white supremacy" in our face these days since that wacko in Charleston, SC. If you're in the mood to draw conclusions... it is certainly not inconceivable that some sub-human is actually running around popping off the genuine article.
As we have seen so often...
The simple answer is typically the correct one. But I am subscribed now so I do hope that you'll update.
On the side of tinfoil conspiracy theories however, there certainly has been a lot of "Confederate Flag/white supremacy" in our face these days since that wacko in Charleston, SC. If you're in the mood to draw conclusions... it is certainly not inconceivable that some sub-human is actually running around popping off the genuine article.
While I realize it is possible, I think it highly unlikely. For one thing, Lugers don't hold enough rounds to be popular with drive by shooters!
I think someone doing this with an actual P.08 as some kind of white power statement is the lowest probability. A gang banger using a P.08 stolen from a collector seems more likely, but still a low order probability. For one thing, they would have to figure out how to load it!
Apparently this reporter's expertise appeared in the Seattle Times, a week ago, last Sunday. My friend has the paper. I couldn't find it on the net, but I'm not very good with those things.
My friend did email the reporter. No reply, to date. I rather doubt he will get one.
I think someone doing this with an actual P.08 as some kind of white power statement is the lowest probability. A gang banger using a P.08 stolen from a collector seems more likely, but still a low order probability. For one thing, they would have to figure out how to load it!
Apparently this reporter's expertise appeared in the Seattle Times, a week ago, last Sunday. My friend has the paper. I couldn't find it on the net, but I'm not very good with those things.
My friend did email the reporter. No reply, to date. I rather doubt he will get one.
foolzrushn
New member
Bogie speak
Then to...could the crew stay quiet about the novelty of the shooter using such a unique roscoe? Think the shooter might not want the attention. On second thought, he or she's, not really a much of a thinker!
Then to...could the crew stay quiet about the novelty of the shooter using such a unique roscoe? Think the shooter might not want the attention. On second thought, he or she's, not really a much of a thinker!
Death from Afar
New member
I Laughed at the thought of a "Gangsta" "popping caps, yo" with an Artillery Luger and a snail drum.
But yeah, I suspect it was a "9mm Luger Glock" pistol. Not a "9mm Luger , Luger".
But yeah, I suspect it was a "9mm Luger Glock" pistol. Not a "9mm Luger , Luger".
kilimanjaro
New member
The terms 'professional journalist' and 'Seattle' are mutually exclusive.