LR accuracy

[bj426]

I have recently begun to think about getting a new/used rifle for primary use of varmint/white tails.... I have no intention of getting something cuz it's big... I've got that... what I'm looking for is:

1. accuracy.... farther is better... need to know I can make the shot at at least 200yd

2. common round found in most ammo selling stores

3. reasonably priced ammo (I have a tendancy to shoot a LOT being that I've got land to shoot on... )

ie: something smaller, accurate, and cheap to shoot yet effective

I would also like an suggestions on a rifle brand/model that would be chambered in this cal.

I'm open to suggestion on action type... bolt or semi or ....

also if you know of any make/model that would have been made "pre-ban" with high cap mags I'd be interested in that possibly....

thanks for any input

 

[Art Eatman]

Deer at 200 yards, with ammo that's not expensive for the other primary use of plinking. And I gather that you're not a handloader.

We're back to the .308 because it meets both requirements.

The lowest cost new rifle you can buy, apparently, is a Savage 110 (there are several variants, shown at their website, I'd imagine.) Lots of guys here can tell you more about them than I can.

Overall, though, you ought to go to a large-inventory gunstore and feel and fondle to see if something just plain "feels good"--and hope the price is affordable.

I've never at all been afraid of a used rifle, subject to inspection of the bore and the crown of the muzzle. (If the crown is bad, it's readily repairable and not expensive, but it's a good talking point in the bargaining.)

$0.02, Art

 

[bj426]

.308 would do what I want.... but is overkill I think for what I'm looking for.

I like the Ruger mini 14 style but haven't heard a LOT of raves about the accuracy without major mods may be a bit small ... not sure

7mm may work as well but not sure

somewhere inbetween?

I like the idea of being able to customize or have high cap mags (even though they can be spendy for good ones) but it wouldn't be necissary.
I plan on having it for quite a while and using it...so over time I'm sure whatever it is will get cusomized in one way or another. I'd like it to be a quality piece as it is likely to be used.

I suppose I could loosen up my "at least 200 yd" requirement... it was only mentioned cuz if the oppritunity presents itself........ I wanna make every shot and make it count

 

[Dead]

With 308 you can get ammo as cheap as $140 per 1000 rounds. Rifles can be had cheap also.. Look at the Savage like Art said.

 

[bj426]

I'll look into the savage in 308 tonight yet...

any thoughts on a 243?

 

[Legionnaire]

bj,

.243 is the .308 case necked down to 6mm. I like the .243 a lot, for exactly the application you describe. Good midweight caliber that's not too big for varmints and not too small for deer. But it isn't as cheap or as widely available as .308, as has been pointed out.

Accuracy tends to be better from bolt guns rather than semi-autos and as you note, the Mini-14 (and Mini-30) tend to vary a lot in accuracy. Great plinkers, but I wouldn't go there if accuracy is your first priority.

I concur with Art that the Savage is probably the best bargain in a bolt gun. However, I chose a Remington Model 7 in .243 for my son's first rifle because of its carbine length. He's used it on deer and groundhogs with success.

 

[bj426]

umm..... I think the 308 is bigger than what I'm looking for.... Savage seems to have some nice guns though at reasonable prices.

the 243 is looking more appealing.... I believe that it just may be the caliber I'm looking for... and if I stock up on ammo when I find it cheap I can deal with having to pay a bit more..... and save the heavy plinking for the .22

any other brands who chamber in .243 with good success?
any history on this cal?

on a side note.... the savagearms website is S-L-O-W!

 

[labgrade]

Other than "cheap to shoot" (& anything other than surplus will be in this category) the .243 Win/6MM Rem is just the ticket. 'Course, so could be the .25-06 (but may be a bit overkill on the varmit side of things).

Basic Rem 700 ADL is a great starter platform but just talking to a bud says Rem's not making the ADL in .243 this year? Just the SST synthetic - beats me. 'Course, you still have the SST, BDL, M7 & whatever else.

 

[Eat more possum]

For the purposes you named, my bet is you will never be sorry if you pick up a .308 in either a Remington 700, a Ruger M77 or a Winchester M70. A Savage 110 or variant is also a good rifle (I own a great shooter in .22-250) that is normally less expensive than the ones named above. These are all bolt action rifles with integral magazines for the most part. "Pre Ban" high capacity magazines are not in my experince usually available for the hunting arms I am familiar with.

Were I starting from scratch today I would look at Remington 700 1st, Ruger M77 2nd (I also own one of these) and Winchester M70 3rd and Savage 4th. But these are HIGHLY PERSONAL preferences. None of the above listed rifles are likely to ever fail you in any meaningful way.

My personal preference is also for .308 over .243 for anyone getting a starter rifle. The .308 is simply more versatile. Get any .243 shooter to tell you otherwise?? Not likely. .243 is a great round, but is NOT for the one rifle guy.

Once I decided which model rifle I liked based on what I read and heard I would consider variants such as stock (wood vs. synthetic , barrel weight, fluted, etc.) and THEN I would go to the gun store and HANDLE THE GUN I PICKED. Just to be sure my mind agreed with my hands, arms and eyes. If they (hands,arms and eyes) decided what my mind said was maybe a little off, I would listen to them.

Good luck with what you choose.

 

[El Rojo]

.223 at 200 yards?

I don't know how great an idea it is to try and shoot deer at 200 yards with a .223. I would think that an accurate shot would be as crucial as it gets. With that being said, trying to shoot a .223 at 200 yards at a deer would be pushing the extreme edge of potential accuracy.

I use my Rem 700 VS in .308 for everything. Shooting 1000 yard matches, shooting deer, shooting pigs, shooting, coyotes, and shooting ground squirrels. I made a 325 yard shot on a squirrel this weekend that I was mighty pleased with. No cheap ammo goes into that gun anymore though. You don't shoot precision rifles to waste ammo or to plink. You shoot precision rifles to hit what you are shooting at everytime or as near as possible. Getting that out of a cheap semi-auto is not really possible.

I also took my Ruger 10/22 with me this weekend too. Out of the dozens of squirrels I shot, I shot them at 100 yards or less with the .22. Only about 4 were taken with the .308. I did the heavy plinking with my new 10/22 package I just spend way too much money on (but does it ever shoot good!), and I did the long range work with the 700. So BJ, I think you said it best when you save your money up for the .243 and its ammo and you rely on the wasting of ammo for the .22. Plus, with a bolt gun, your mission is not to hear it go bang, bang, bang. Suddenly you shoot a whole lot less and concentrate on one shot hits a whole lot more. You don't "waste" as much ammo.

The biggest factor in my choosing .308 was that I had a reloading machine and an M1A in .308 already. I make my own custom rounds for a signifigant reduction in price. Therefore it is not a problem for me to reload Hornady 110gr V-max or Speer 125gr TNT Hp for shooting varmints, Sierra 165gr Spitzer boattails for deer or pigs, and Sierra 168gr and 175 gr HPBT Match or Hornady 178 gr A-max for shooting long range. I taylor the loads to how I want them. Another extremely valuable and enjoyable part of the shooting process. Is the .308 a little expensive for shooting squirrels? Yes! That is why I don't use the .308 for "plinking". I use the .22 for plinking. I use the .308 when I want to make my shots count and want to practice accurate, precise shooting.

I think the .243 would be a great idea for you despite my personal preference for the .308 because of its versatility for just about everything. What I would suggest to you is to start thinking about investing in your future. Look into reloading. I once thought I didn't have the time or the start up capital for such a venture (and I thought I was too young). A year and a half later I do not and will never regret my decision to invest into reloading. If you want to shoot a lot of centerfire ammo, the sooner you invest in a reloading outfit, the sooner you will start saving money. Reloading is a lifetime investment and it pays off!

Go with the .243 and save the heavy plinking for the .22. And start thinking about how much shooting you want to do and how much money you want to save. Reloading your own .243 rounds to fit deer hunting or varmint hunting will save you money and give you the versatility that you are not going to find with expensive commercial ammo. The sooner you start, the more money you save.

Sorry this is so long, you know how us gun nuts get when we are talking about our hobby.

 

[Eat more possum]

So, Rojo...

You recommend .243 and brag up your .308? What's up with that? You KNOW first hand what a .308 will do. I've shot plenty of .243's. I stick by what I said earlier, for a one rifle guy (centerfire rifle) .243 comes in a distant second to .308. Please feel free to disagree but also explain why?

 

[labgrade]

I'll bite, eat more ...

bj said that varmits with whietail at the upper end - to me that's a .243 (a personal pref is all). The 6mm wouldn't really fit his requirements for a "common round."

If I had to have only one rifle, it'd be a .308 but that's not what the question was.

I agree with El Rojo - get into reloading soon as you can to help squeeze out the best potential (& shoot cheaper/more often) for whatever you do get.

 

[bj426]

Thanks for the advice to all...

I think that I will be going with the .243 I'm quite sure that I'll get into reloading... but it'll be a few years. I have access to an 8mm mauser and some wicked reloads my late grandfather did for bigger game needs (unfortunately his reloading equipment dissapeared) until I get something larger for myself.... then in the future my wife or children can use the .243

I'm not sure when I'll be able to fund this venture... hopefully before the fall hunt... but it may be next years hunt if I can't scrape together the pennies (I've got another pistol and a 10/22 for my wife to buy that are higher on the priority list)

any suggestions on quality and affordability options for guns? this would certainly include a good scope and mounts.... lighter is better

 

[El Rojo]

It comes down to personal preference.

Hey Eat,

It comes down to personal preference. BJ really does not seem fond of the .308, so let him buy the .243. You and me seem to know how great the .308 is and I listed all of the great reasons why I own the .308 (reloading being one of the greatest reasons), but not every cartridge is for everyone. I sort of have the feeling no matter what we say, BJ is just set against the .308. Of course I have never shot the .243, so I can't say it if it is a good cartridge or not. It sounds like it is a good blend of varminting and big game hunting, so why not let BJ go with what he wants.

I am going to stick to my .308 because I have two guns in that caliber and because I have a Dillon reloader that helps facilitate my enjoyment of the .308. I don't think you would be disappointed with the .308 at all BJ, but really you just go with what you want. There is no doubt the .308 is versital, but if you like .243 get it. Until you start reloading you really are not going to get the full potential out of any centerfire rifle. I am not saying you are doomed without a reloader, I am just saying you are not experiencing the best part of shooting until you roll your own. With a reloader I get my cake and I get to eat it too!

 

[Karsten]

BJ426
I have read your posts, your questions about the sexy rifle your wife wants and you were going to by. I was one of the first to tell you to get the 10-22 with the fancy laminate stock. You did well and she will be happy on her birthday.
I will ask you one question, why buy a rifle you are going to have to replace because you are unhappy with it, hence .243 :-( Not to doubt the .243 and say it is a bad round but I can see you are on a budjet and a wrong choice may be hard to over come.
I have to agree, .308 in a Savage 110fp would be a better offering and a rifle you would never need to replace. Well, maybe never as I think I said that about 10 guns ago and I still haven't really replaced any, just filling a safe ;-)
Go with a good .308 and as heavy a barrel as you can find. No sites and get a decent scope and mount and learn to shoot 100 yards, then 150 and when you Master 600 plus yards, you may just need a better rifle.
This is a $700 plus rifle I will never shoot as good as she can http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1580853&a=12026221&p=43441055 and this is being put together as we speak http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1580853&a=12026221&p=43441054 and they are both .308
A lot of us can lead you to a good addy for milsurp and even reloading stuff.
Just in MHO don't invest in a rifle you will have to replace next year. I did that for years with snow ski equipment, cost me a bunch.
I wanted a motorcyle once and someone told me, buy the one and next year you will want a bigger one. I opted for the one shot bike that would last me few years. I was surprised that my small frame could ride and hold a 750 lbs bike.

Sorry guys

Carston

[Edited by Karsten on 03-21-2001 at 12:10 AM]

 

[El Rojo]

If that is the case.

In that case, buy a Remington 700 VS in .308. This thing will shoot 1000 yard matches right out of the box with the right scope and ammo. You can start off easy. The gun is going to run between $550-$700 depending on where you live. For now get some cheap rings and a cheap scope for it. And since you want to upgrade as you go along, save for a better scope. You can also buy a new stock if you really want (the existing stock is pretty darn good unless you taper the scope base for long range, in that case you will need to add some padding to your cheek weld). The trigger is really easy to work on yourself. Over all I am really pleased with my rifle. I even gave it a pretty paint job! El Rojo's Remington 700 VS in .308 Winchester

I think it is going to come down to go with what you want. However, if you want to make a better decision go with a .308. I don't think you will be sorry you did.

 

[labgrade]

It's a wonder anybody gets a straight answer.

bj426 asked some specific questions:

"varmits/whitetails
farther is better - at least 200 yds
common round/reasonably priced
smaller/accurate/yet effective" .... & sounds like he's on a budget, got younguns & a wife ....

not what our favorite rifle was or what we use it for.

For what questions he's asking, sounds like a .243 would be just the ticket for "varmits/whitetails." Gets what he wants now, kids & wife get to use it later if he decides to go for something bigger later. Looks like when finances improve on down the line and the family has a chance to grow a bit, bj's gonna be getting more shooters - doubtful there's any reason to think that he'll be unhappy with a .243 for what he wants to do now.

.243 w/3X9 scope was my only center fire rifle till I was pushing 30. Every varmit and whitetail (& a few mulies) died with one shot. Entirely happy with that caliber till I moved out west & had the opportunity to hunt elk which did entail a larger caliber.

Hell yes. 7-08, .260, .270, .280 .308, .30-06 (& everything I've missed) will do it too and do bigger stuff better but it wasn't what he asked.

Maybe too fiesty today, but I see so many questions asked & "we experts" go off telling 'em what they really want if they were only us.

Go ahead, I can take it.

 

[El Rojo]

Well done Labgrade!

Thanks for the reality check Labgrade. Even though I love my .308 and its capabilitites, as I have said before, sounds like he would be better suited for a .243 to start. I think bringing the .308 into the situation was an attempt to save him from having to just buy a .308 later!

Still though, what is wrong with the .308 for what he wants? The 110gr and 125gr bulelts available for the .308 are one heck of a varminter bullet. I know from experience. Plus there is not end ot the commercial medium game loads for the .308 as well. And if you really want to use the rifle for plinking and screwing around, you are not going to find much surplus .243 floating around out there. There happens to be tons of surplus .308 that can be obtained for as low as $120 for a 1000 rounds.

If you feel the .308 is still overkill, then I suppose go for the .243. I don't know about you, but when I shoot squirrels and coyotes, I don't shoot them for their meat. I shoot them to eliminate them. It is a very rare case I shoot a squirrel or a coyote with a 110gr V-Max or 125gr Speer TNT HP and the animal is still alive.

 

[labgrade]

No sweat. But then what's The Wife gonna shoot except that pink 10/22?

Face it, bj, you don't have enough guns.

 

[bj426]

lovin the dialog here guys....
it's interesting stuff here.... some ppl have a better idea of what I'm lookin for though

I'm still leaning toward the .243....

yes I know that the .308 is probly a better allaround gun.... but I don't NEED (that was hard to say) that big of a caliber... and when I do in the future that'll give me reason to buy another gun

yes making ground hogs turn into a stain in the lawn is fun..... but a .243 would do the primary job just as well with lower recoil and lighter weight... which make it more desireable to walk with and pass on to smaller shooters in the future... and it is still quite capable of acompanying me on deer hunts.... correct me if I'm wrong... but ballisticly speaking the .243 is slightly superior to the .308

I would guess that a .308 will certainly be part of the family.... but it'll be in the future

lets put a lil curve in this gun hunt.... synthetic stock and perferably a stainless barrel

thanks agaon to all