One has some noticeable side play and the other is tight with no detected wobble of any kind between slide and frame ! Anyway , the one that is tight is more expensive then the other....so just wondering how this affects accuracy , durability , and other traits of the pistol ? Thanks !
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Loose vs tight slide to frame fit on 1911's ?
- Thread starter WIN1886
- Start date
According to the book “The Colt .45 Automatic” by Jerry Kuhnhausen, the slide to frame fit accounts for 15% of total accuracy. So it’s nothing to discount. Other factors….
Match grade barrel 10%
Bushing fit 20%
Headspace 10%
Rear barrel side play 20%
Vertical lock up 20%
Beyond reach 5%
In your case, if the looser fitting pistol has better bushing fit, little to no barrel side play, and good vertical lock up, it will out shoot the pistol with only good slide to frame fit. But that’s if it has only good slide fit. If it also has all the others, it will shoot better. Only way to tell is shoot them both.
I built a M1911 with what would be called "noticable side play" at frame to slide, and it still shoots 5 inch groups at 50 yards. I have another M1911 built by a real pistolsmith that has very very little slide to frame play and it shoots just under 4 inch groups at 50 yards.
Added: Tom's post above is very correct. A properly fitted / head spaced barrel accounts for 70% of the accuracy.
Match grade barrel 10%
Bushing fit 20%
Headspace 10%
Rear barrel side play 20%
Vertical lock up 20%
Beyond reach 5%
In your case, if the looser fitting pistol has better bushing fit, little to no barrel side play, and good vertical lock up, it will out shoot the pistol with only good slide to frame fit. But that’s if it has only good slide fit. If it also has all the others, it will shoot better. Only way to tell is shoot them both.
I built a M1911 with what would be called "noticable side play" at frame to slide, and it still shoots 5 inch groups at 50 yards. I have another M1911 built by a real pistolsmith that has very very little slide to frame play and it shoots just under 4 inch groups at 50 yards.
Added: Tom's post above is very correct. A properly fitted / head spaced barrel accounts for 70% of the accuracy.
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g.willikers
New member
It might be hard to sneak up on anyone with a loose and rattly gun, especially if your hands are shaking.
But other than that, if it shoots good, don't sweat it.
But other than that, if it shoots good, don't sweat it.
Stevie-Ray
New member
My 1989 Colt Mark IV had a bit of side play, but was underwhelming to say the least in accuracy. I installed a match bull barrel with compensator and this package included an adjustable for lockup extended slide stop. The stop has an ingenious slot in the pin where you place shims and then a rollpin. Through careful experimentation, I was able to get astounding accuracy, good enough for me to start IPSC. It is still my most accurate handgun. In my case the side-play had little to do with it. But it may have a lot to do with the fact that this gun also never failed.
boondocker385
New member
I know the kimbers we tried out were tight....and shot great until they started jamming after a few hours of playing in the dirt. of course most people don't crawl around and do things like that. there is a madness behind military weapons.
Most manufacturers of 1911 clones don't even consider use of their guns in rough situations, so dirt, dust, sand, rust, cold, snow, etc., are not even considerations with them. In fact, many manufacturers consider their 1911s to be big boys' toys, to be used on the range and playing shooting games, not in ugly combat in nasty places.
Jim
Jim
boondocker385
New member
toys being the key.....
Deaf Smith
New member
My Kimber Gold Match and Dan Wesson Patriot CBOB both have zero tolerance in the side to frame fit.
My Colt Commander has just a bit.
And my Springfield Armory 1911 GI has some.
The Kimber and DW and very accurate. The Colt and SA are decently accurate but not like the other two.
Any of them will out shoot my Glocks.
Deaf
My Colt Commander has just a bit.
And my Springfield Armory 1911 GI has some.
The Kimber and DW and very accurate. The Colt and SA are decently accurate but not like the other two.
Any of them will out shoot my Glocks.
Deaf
Wreck-n-Crew
New member
Ditto.Slide/frame fit has very little to do with the accuracy. Fit between the slide and barrel is a far more important factor.
If you grip the gun between the chamber and the muzzle tightly and can't wiggle the barrel with your finger with the other hand your good to go.
Hate to be the one to state the obvious but...glocks have a consistently tight tolerance and they perform nicely in poopy conditions. I realize that I am comparing two completely different designs.......
They are different and designed for different uses. Even most entry level 1911s can shoot ammo it likes to groups 3" or better @ 25 yards. 3" groups are good for a stock Glock @ 15 yards.
Yes....I stated that they are different designs, not sure what you mean by "different uses" But the issue that was raised was reliability, not accuracy. The loose slide in the 1911 apparently has little to do with accuracy, but helps with reliability in poor conditions. I am saying that Glocks are reliable in poor conditions but still maintain a tight slide to frame fit. 3 inches at 15 yards? I didn't know that Glocks were that inaccurate. That translates into approx. 5.5 inches at 25 yards.
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Tactical Jackalope
New member
They are different and designed for different uses. Even most entry level 1911s can shoot ammo it likes to groups 3" or better @ 25 yards. 3" groups are good for a stock Glock @ 15 yards.
Not gospel. That's just in your hands.
I can do the same group with my Glock 19 as I can with my Colt Gold Cup.
I think that he may have been joking about the" 3 inch at 15 yard" thing. But you bring up an interesting point: most guns are more accurate than the shooters. I can shoot sub 3 inch groups with my Glock 17 at 25 yards on certain days and not on others. I rarely shoot 3 inch groups at 25 yds. with my SA Loaded. The gun is certainly capable, but I don't practice with it as much. I shoot ALL of my revolvers better DA than SA. The reason being I carry my revolvers daily and always practice DA. I find it funny that people criticize Glocks for being inaccurate. In the 1970's when I started shooting, I rarely heard anything good about the 1911, and accuracy was supposedly the biggest fault. No one wants to blame themselves when "the gun" can't shoot straight.