Loose bullets

[carl418]

I just loaded some .45 colt bullets using new Starline brass, and something happened that I haven't seen before.

I probably should have, but I did not resize the brass before loading. I noticed that I did not have to flare the mouth for the bullet to fit into. The bullet barely started, and did not 'fall down' into the case.

After seating, I roll crimped using a Lee factory crimp die. In fact, all the dies used were Lee.

After all 100 were loaded, I wiped them down, to get rid of lead shavings, etc. I noticed there were three that the bullet can be turned in the case. They do not move in and out... just can turn in them. I tried putting a little more crimp on them, and that helped a little. But, the bullets still can be turned.

Is that a problem? I feel that when I resize the cases for the next loading, the problem will be solved. But, I'm worried that these might not shoot correctly.

By the way, the bullets are Hornady LFN 255 grain, using 8 grains Unique and Winchester large pistol primers.

Thanks for your help. I've learned a lot from this forum, and really enjoy the reloading hobby!

 

[HSMITH]

Shoot them up, they should shoot OK if you run partial cylinders of them. I don't think I would fill the cylinder, you may get some bullet pull without the case having a good grip on the bullet. I would load 2 or 3 at a time and burn them, then you get the brass back to load.

Now you know that even new brass must be sized before loading.

 

[carl418]

Thanks for the advice!! And, yes... I did learn something. Thanks again...

 

[Ben Shepherd]

VERY IMPORTANT:

What powder are you using? Anything slower than blue dot I think you're going to be in trouble.

 

[robertbank]

You must resize new brass or you will have the problems you are having. Some powders require a pretty tight crimp to function properly so you might get indifferent results with the loose fitting bullets.

Take Care

Bob

 

[cpaspr]

Regarding the spin,

ever notice that you can spin factory .22s in the case?

It sounds like you shouldn't have setback problems, as the crimp is holding the mouth of the shells tight into the grooves, but the aforementioned comment about some powders maybe needing the tighter cartridge to bullet fit might be a concern. Might. Try one and see. If it goes bang, shoot the rest. Then resize all from this point forward.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Carl418: What powder did you load these with? If it's a slow powder like 296, H110, 2400, N110 etc., you are running a real risk of sticking a bullet in the barrel.

Always size new brass. This verifies 3 things:

1. Flash hole is present.

2. Case mouths are concentric. Sometimes loose packed brass will get the mouths dinged in shipping/handling.

3. Eliminates the exact problem you are having. Makes sure that your neck tension is up to snuff.

 

[carl418]

Thanks for all the replies.. the powder I'm using is 8 grains of Unique. Is that a problem? Thanks...

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Unique should work ok if you tighten up the crimp a bit.

 

[WESHOOT2]

safety first

Ensure all bullets exit the barrel.

Always size all cases (and yes, certain utterly specific circumstances may exist when "always" isn't....)

 

[snuffy]

45 colt brass

The main problem here is the 45 COLT brass. It is made at the factory to fit the old .454 bullets that SOME of the old Colt saa revovlers need. This is one of those "always size before loading". Hpoefully the lee sizer will size to hold the present required .452 bullets. Also another thing, most 45 colt dies have 2 expanders provided, one for .454 bullets, the other for .452. Take a look, be sure to use the proper expander when you reload that brass.

According to my Lyman manual, they recommend starting at 8.5 grains of unique for their 255 SWC lead bullet. That gives 1013 FPS. So that 8.0 grain charge of yours should be arround 950 fps, a real mild load. Unique is a relativley fast burning powder, so the low bullet pull probably won't affect ignition.

As requested, I want to edit this to read those loads I posted were from the section in the Lyman's 48th edition hand gun section for TC contender and encore single shots. They clearly head that section with the " for tc contender-encore' but not each individual cartridge page.

 

[robertbank]

Just a comment but 8.5 gr Unique under a 255 gr bullet I find to be pretty stiff. Lyman's Pistol & Revolver Reloading Handbook shows the 8.5 gr to be the MAXIMUM LOAD. Manual shows a starting load pf 6 gr.

Take Care

Bob

 

[snuffy]

So Who's Right?

I just checked, the Lyman 48th edition reloading handbook clearly lists 8.5 gr. od Alliant unique as a STARTING load, 10.2 being max. OOPS, that is in the section for the TC contender and Encore single shots. You are correct, Bob, the regular loading section calls for 6.0 to 8.5 unique. I wonder about them NOT including the Ruger blackhawk in with the TC single shots!?

Carl, what gun are you using? I understand the vaquero is capable of being loaded to the level a blackhawk can withstand. But since you are at 8.0, that's a half grain under max even for a saa colt.

 

[robertbank]

snuffy

Hi

Easy mistake to make. Would you consider amending your former post. You would not want somebody to just read down to your post and go off and load something higher than 8.5 gr. I have some cartridges loaded that high for bear protection but I would not want to shoot them in my Beretta Stampede as a daily load. Might not hurt the gun but no sense in wearing it out prematurely.

Take Care

Bob

 

[snuffy]

So Who's Right?

double post, why can't I delete?

 

[robertbank]

Thanks

Bob

 

[carl418]

The gun I'm loading for is a S&W 25-5, with a 6" barrel. I'll find out tomorrow night about my loose bullets, and I'll post an update.

Also, the bullets I loaded are of the .454 sizing... that's one reason I didn't think I would need to resize the new brass. But, I am a newbie, as some of you know. I've loaded about 500 rounds of .38, .357 mag, 44 mag and now 45 LC. BUT, I also started with new brass for all of them. And, this is the first time I've had a problem with new Starline brass.

Thanks for all the advice. I read this forum almost daily, and have learned a lot here!

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Monday 11/27/2006.

Yesterday, I sized 300 brand new 45 colt starline cases. In a random check of 20 different cases before and after sizing I was getting a .003 difference across the board. All loaded up just fine, good neck tension and a proper crimp. Same thing held true last time I resized new winchester 44 magnum brass.

So lesson learned, eh? Let us know how they shoot.

 

[carl418]

UPDATE: I took the rounds that had the loose bullets to the range tonight and shot them, one at a time. There were seven, out of one hundred that I loaded. They all shot ok. I also took some of the others so I would have something to judge by, as this load was new to me. The loose-bullet rounds seemed to have about the same recoil as the ones that were tight.

The only thing I did notice is that some of the rounds tore the paper target, as opposed to just leaving a hole. Some did leave a nice hole, tho. Is it possible that since I didn't resize before loading, this somehow allowed the bullets to keyhole? I'm not really sure that's what happened (keyholing), but I had about half of the rounds that tore the paper. Any ideas?

Thanks again for the advice... I've learned a lesson I won't forget!!

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Yeah....

If you really tightened up the crimp, you most likely stripped a bunch of lead off the slug when it came out of the brass. This lead to poor rifling engagement, which lead to little if any stabilizing spin. Hence the *almost* keyholed target.

I'm guessing you were shooting fairly close? Under 20 yards?

Sorta heavy amount of leading in the first 1/3 of the barrel?