looking to buy an enfield and some other C&R's
- Thread starter 2002gti
- Start date
I would suggest at a minimum that you read a few books. Charles Stratton's work in the "For Collectors Only" series is a pretty good place to start. You can find these on Amazon. Here is one:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/002-1479304-6932047?v=glance&s=books
There are too many Enfields to even start to touch on here, but since I am partial to No4's (as you might have guessed...
) I'll give you a quick primer....
Me, I don't have a No4Mk2, so a Faz Mk2 is on my list right now. However, while they are nice rifles, they aren't as interesting (to some) as the WWII era Mk1 and Mk1*'s. As for those, the best is obviously one in nice original condition, but a FTR (Factory Thorough Repair, aka arsenal rebuild) is not too bad either. A private restoration can be very nice looking but obviously holds the least collectible interest of the three.
Also find out what year it is. 1943 and 1944 are the most common for WWII rifles, and 41, 42 and 45 rifles (especially 41 and 45) are more interesting. Wartime production was big in the US and Canada, with Savage and LB making the most rifles, and the three Brit arsenals together making fewer than Savage and Long Branch, however many here in the US enjoy the "American-ness" or at least "North American-ness" of Savage and LB rifles so they seem to hold their own pretty well all other things being equal.
As for where to find them.... You have to be patient and look, but people find them at gun shops, pawn shops, and gun shows. Not as common as they once were, but still can be found. More reliably, you can find them on auctions, but be careful or you will get taken to the cleaners. A lot of the auctions are over-priced out of the gate, and those that aren't often get bid up. If you are willing to pay for real quality and peace of mind to know that you are getting what you pay for, you should try someone like Brian Dick at http://www.bdlltd.com .
Edit to add: There some Enfields that recently hit AIM and Century. I think it has been determined that these are Indian rebuilds. While these are still decent rifles, and one of my best shooters is an Indian rebuild, they are not nearly as collectible, so just be aware of what you are getting.
Probably the best C&R "bargain" right now still has to be the Yugo 59/66 SKS. While not very collectible in its own right, it is a fantastic semi-auto at an unreal price. When these things are gone the prices are sure to rise steadily.
This is sort of a random brain dump, but I hope it helps!! Also, be sure to check out the C&R forum linked in my signature.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/002-1479304-6932047?v=glance&s=books
There are too many Enfields to even start to touch on here, but since I am partial to No4's (as you might have guessed...
) I'll give you a quick primer....Me, I don't have a No4Mk2, so a Faz Mk2 is on my list right now. However, while they are nice rifles, they aren't as interesting (to some) as the WWII era Mk1 and Mk1*'s. As for those, the best is obviously one in nice original condition, but a FTR (Factory Thorough Repair, aka arsenal rebuild) is not too bad either. A private restoration can be very nice looking but obviously holds the least collectible interest of the three.
Also find out what year it is. 1943 and 1944 are the most common for WWII rifles, and 41, 42 and 45 rifles (especially 41 and 45) are more interesting. Wartime production was big in the US and Canada, with Savage and LB making the most rifles, and the three Brit arsenals together making fewer than Savage and Long Branch, however many here in the US enjoy the "American-ness" or at least "North American-ness" of Savage and LB rifles so they seem to hold their own pretty well all other things being equal.
As for where to find them.... You have to be patient and look, but people find them at gun shops, pawn shops, and gun shows. Not as common as they once were, but still can be found. More reliably, you can find them on auctions, but be careful or you will get taken to the cleaners. A lot of the auctions are over-priced out of the gate, and those that aren't often get bid up. If you are willing to pay for real quality and peace of mind to know that you are getting what you pay for, you should try someone like Brian Dick at http://www.bdlltd.com .
Edit to add: There some Enfields that recently hit AIM and Century. I think it has been determined that these are Indian rebuilds. While these are still decent rifles, and one of my best shooters is an Indian rebuild, they are not nearly as collectible, so just be aware of what you are getting.
Probably the best C&R "bargain" right now still has to be the Yugo 59/66 SKS. While not very collectible in its own right, it is a fantastic semi-auto at an unreal price. When these things are gone the prices are sure to rise steadily.
This is sort of a random brain dump, but I hope it helps!! Also, be sure to check out the C&R forum linked in my signature.
You cannot go wrong with an Enfield as the first rifle to start a C&R collection. I did the same 15 years ago and I now have a sizeable collection of No1's and No4's. They are wonderful guns.
If you are not looking for the best bargain but want a solid rifle from a very well respected dealer who will treat you right, see Brian Dick at BDL. His prices are high, but his descriptions are accurate and his guns are the best going on Enfields right now.
www.bdlltd.com
If you are not looking for the best bargain but want a solid rifle from a very well respected dealer who will treat you right, see Brian Dick at BDL. His prices are high, but his descriptions are accurate and his guns are the best going on Enfields right now.
www.bdlltd.com
Some good choices for future collectables:
1) An un-"scouterized" Spanish FR-8. These came into the country priced at ~$100 not too many years ago. Many were immediately transformed into poor man's Scout rifles, leaving good original ones commanding prices in the $200-$250 range these days.
2) Get an Enfield No.5 "Jungle Carbine" now, while you can. They did not make too all-fire many of these things on the grand scale of military rifle production, and before this current batch got imported, good original numbers-matching guns were trading for silly prices. I remember a Jungle Carbine in the pre-FOPA '86 days that traded for more than four bills, which is about what I had paid for the jalopy I was driving at the time.
3) Unless something totally unforseen happens, any American military surplus weapon, from Trapdoor Springfields through Korean War-vintage M1 Carbines, is money in the bank. If I'd known then what I know now, I'd've snapped up every clunker Garand, '03, and 1911 that I came across in the last ten years, and be sitting on my retirement fortune right now. Blue Sky re-import Garands that folks bought at Monkey Ward back in '88 or so for $150 are trading for $600+...
1) An un-"scouterized" Spanish FR-8. These came into the country priced at ~$100 not too many years ago. Many were immediately transformed into poor man's Scout rifles, leaving good original ones commanding prices in the $200-$250 range these days.
2) Get an Enfield No.5 "Jungle Carbine" now, while you can. They did not make too all-fire many of these things on the grand scale of military rifle production, and before this current batch got imported, good original numbers-matching guns were trading for silly prices. I remember a Jungle Carbine in the pre-FOPA '86 days that traded for more than four bills, which is about what I had paid for the jalopy I was driving at the time.
3) Unless something totally unforseen happens, any American military surplus weapon, from Trapdoor Springfields through Korean War-vintage M1 Carbines, is money in the bank. If I'd known then what I know now, I'd've snapped up every clunker Garand, '03, and 1911 that I came across in the last ten years, and be sitting on my retirement fortune right now. Blue Sky re-import Garands that folks bought at Monkey Ward back in '88 or so for $150 are trading for $600+...
FrankDrebin
Moderator
They are!??!?! If you find a real one with no bayonet lug and a flip-up sight instead of a micrometer sight, let me know....
Actually...
Enfield was the most recent "old battle rifle" I acquired (and since it was sporterized, I'm restoring it currently)...Started with a couple of Mausers and Mosins...And a couple SKSs...You can get alot of decent condition Mausers (and collecting only all the various permutations of them could take a lifetime!) for $100 to 200...I got a re-arsenalled Polish M-44 (Mosin Nagant) in near perfect condition at local Dunham's for $89 on sale. Also lucked out and got pristine Yugo SKS for $129 same place. Alas, they've now closed both local Dunham's in my area. My best shootin' buddy got a really nice Turkish Mauser for $189 at Galyans....Anyway, beware...once the bug bites you'll find yourself spending lots of money (even though they're relatively cheap!) and even more time researching your last/next purchase. Since my buddy saw some of mine, then bought the Mauser he's spent about $2000 (and he already owned about 125 guns!)
Enfield was the most recent "old battle rifle" I acquired (and since it was sporterized, I'm restoring it currently)...Started with a couple of Mausers and Mosins...And a couple SKSs...You can get alot of decent condition Mausers (and collecting only all the various permutations of them could take a lifetime!) for $100 to 200...I got a re-arsenalled Polish M-44 (Mosin Nagant) in near perfect condition at local Dunham's for $89 on sale. Also lucked out and got pristine Yugo SKS for $129 same place. Alas, they've now closed both local Dunham's in my area. My best shootin' buddy got a really nice Turkish Mauser for $189 at Galyans....Anyway, beware...once the bug bites you'll find yourself spending lots of money (even though they're relatively cheap!) and even more time researching your last/next purchase. Since my buddy saw some of mine, then bought the Mauser he's spent about $2000 (and he already owned about 125 guns!)
As said before, US Military firearms definately grow in value the quickest, but are usually the most expensive to purchase in the first place. An M1 Carbine or Garand would be excellent choices.
Another one that has not been mentioned is the M96 Swedish mauser. Back when I bought 4 of them, they were around $60-80 each. Now to get one in near new condition, it will cost you around $300.
Any odd variation of the Mauser would be a good addition to your collection, too. Check out the book Mauser Military Rifles of the World. I picked up a Dutch Police Carbine in 8mm and I didn't even know what it was at the time. I was at a gunshow and saw a 16" barrelled mauser and thought it would be a fun shooter. A lot of muzzle blast, though. Cost me $60. I've seen a few for sale in the $400 range.
To be honest, I'm more of a shooter than a collector. I sold off a KAR94K that was brought back by a WWII GI from Italy. I honestly believe that it was never shot. Absolutely new condition in all respects. I made $1600 when I sold it and bought an SP-1 Carbine with the cash. When I want another WWII Mauser to shoot, I'll buy a Russian re-furb. Not as collectable, but just as capable of a shooter.
Basically, it's a hit or miss kind of thing trying to see what you can buy cheap now and will be worth more later. I was surprised at the Swede thing. I've bought many milsurps that are just that, milsurps. Never really growing in value, but still fun to shoot anyway.
Another one that has not been mentioned is the M96 Swedish mauser. Back when I bought 4 of them, they were around $60-80 each. Now to get one in near new condition, it will cost you around $300.
Any odd variation of the Mauser would be a good addition to your collection, too. Check out the book Mauser Military Rifles of the World. I picked up a Dutch Police Carbine in 8mm and I didn't even know what it was at the time. I was at a gunshow and saw a 16" barrelled mauser and thought it would be a fun shooter. A lot of muzzle blast, though. Cost me $60. I've seen a few for sale in the $400 range.
To be honest, I'm more of a shooter than a collector. I sold off a KAR94K that was brought back by a WWII GI from Italy. I honestly believe that it was never shot. Absolutely new condition in all respects. I made $1600 when I sold it and bought an SP-1 Carbine with the cash. When I want another WWII Mauser to shoot, I'll buy a Russian re-furb. Not as collectable, but just as capable of a shooter.
Basically, it's a hit or miss kind of thing trying to see what you can buy cheap now and will be worth more later. I was surprised at the Swede thing. I've bought many milsurps that are just that, milsurps. Never really growing in value, but still fun to shoot anyway.