Looking to buy a milsurp....

[Eightball]

....specifically, I'm thinking along the lines of an M1891/30. There's a shop down the road that is selling them for $119 a pop, but they each have a sling, bayonet, and some little pack thing that comes on them. Different kinda of wood stocks, so I would have a pick of them. However, there are also Mausers and a few other milsurps there, for rougly the same price. Anyhow, any advice for what I should be looking for/trying to get outta a deal when purchasing one?

Before I get hate messages of "91/30's are aweful, get a finnish such-and-such......" Unless there's some kinda markings differentiating them, this place doesn't have finnish. And, I have a small budget, so beggars can't be choosers.

 

[SavageCheesecake]

Finn Mosin-Nagants have slightly different stocks. They're lighter in color, and usually have a blade front sight instead of a globe. The Soviet M91/30 stocks are smooth from the trigger to butt plate, but the Finn stock dips to give the lower fingers a better grip.

Don't let people scare you with the M91/30 horror stories. There are a lot of "Eleetist" shooters who seem to believe that the pricier and more complicated a rifle is, the better. Don't let stories of how awfully difficult the bolt is to work scare you either. There is a certain degree of instances where people's bolts freeze up, but its not as common as youd think. My 91/30's bolt is as difficult to work after firing as it is working without a chambered round - which is to say, not difficult at all. No, I dont have to beat the crap out of it. It turns just fine. It is not the smoothest action that has ever been designed, not by a long shot, but mine works, every time. Even if yours does freeze - beat the hell out of it, you will still have a working rifle. Keep your chamber cleaned and your bolt lightly lubricated, and you should not have problems.

The one thing I cant praise about the rifle is the trigger. Not much length of pull there, and it takes a little getting used to. It gets the job done though.

$120 is not a bad price for a mom and pop C&R store, not with accessories. Yes, you can get the same deal online for $70, but you can't inspect the rifle before you get it and you arent supporting your local gun store. Besides, you'd have to pay transfer fees, and then wait... I prefer to look at it and walk out with it, if I can.

Mausers for the same price? I would be suspicious of those Mausers. German K98's usually go 250+. Mayybe a nice M48 would run the same price. Not as much history there though, if you like that kind of thing.

 

[ksstargazer]

milsurp

The rearsenaled M91/30s that are common these days are generally mid-WW2 rifles that are in pretty decent shape. You can expect accuracy along the lines of 2-3" groups at 100 yards. Occasionally you find one that is exceptionally good or exceptionally bad. The ones that interest the collectors are the pre-WW2 ones that match and are not rearsenaled. The pre1936 ones come with a hex receiver as opposed to the later round receiver. The Tulas bring a little more money than the Izhevsks.
I collect Finnish bolt actions and yes they are among the best. However, I have several Russian M91/30s in my collection and they do very well on their own. The price you mention is a decent retail price - a real bargain when you consider what you are getting - a shootable piece of history.

I don't you would go wrong with getting a M91/30. Ammo is cheap too.

 

[SavageCheesecake]

Yeah, thats one thing I forgot to add. I think that from the sound of it, your looking at getting either a real good condition 91/30 vs. a shooter grade Mauser. Maybe you should save up a little if you want a Mauser.

 

[SIGSHR]

As the owner of 5 Mosin-Nagants I note that you probably get a Finnish Army capture. Look for a small cartouche with the Latin letters "SA"-that stands for "Suomi Armija"-Finnish Army. 3 of mine have it.

 

[SavageCheesecake]

Dont let the country be the sole basis of your buying decision, though. Check the bores, the action, the aesthetics - whatever you like. If they're neck and neck get the Finn, but you should be able to tell if ones a clear winner.

 

[cracked butt]

91/30s aren't bad rifles, to me that balance better than anything else, and the accuracy is respectable if you consider shooting surplus ammo that costs less than 10 cents a round.

$120 is a little high, but if they are in really great condition, then paying a little extra to look it over isn't too bad of a deal.

If you had to order from a place like AIM had to pay $25-30 for a transfer fee, plus $18 shipping, you would only save yourself $10 and would go through a lot more hassle.

 

[chemist308]

Check the bore one those mossins if you want a shooter.

 

[Eightball]

I would have replied sooner, but you know how that thing they call "life" keeps you from things . For the Mausers--they're not German. They are various other countries' models, the most common being Egyptian (which ranks about as trustworthy as Indian .308 Ammo in my book , but I could be wrong....and ususally am). As for the "looking it over" part of the 91/30's, there are some with very dark wood (the "cosmoline" look, for a visual refrence), and even fewer with very bright "wood-looking" wood. As for the difficulty of working the bolt--not a problem, I've got a Spanish Mauser in .308 (hard to open, and COC). I already have a good "shootin' mauser", and I love milsurps, so I know they aren't tackdrivers (but they are funner than hell on the range....especially when shooting things other than paper targets ). So, any more advice on things to look for? Thanks for all your replies, they help greatly.

 

[cracked butt]

The egyptian mausers you see are probably Yugo M48 contract rifles known as M48BO's. They are decent rifles.

The typical 91/30 is going to have a somewhat shiny shellac finish on it. I would bring a borelight (hoppes makes one that costs about $4) and inspect the bores if possible. The typical mosin is going to have dark and somewhat rough grooves, if you find one that is shiny- buy it! Check the muzzle and make sure the rifling looks sharp right to the end, if it looks thin or rounded, pass on the rifle. If the muzzle has been counterbored, chances are it will probably shoot ok.

 

[quack fiend]

i thought rough grooves didn't matter nearly so much as having sharp lands and a good muzzle, to use my sewer-pipe bore svt-40 as an example: i shot 2" groups all day today with surplus ammo and iron sights off a mediocre rest--or do the grooves play a major part in accuracy?

 

[Cpl Punishment]

First thing I would look for is matching numbers on the barrel and bolt. Matching magazine floorplates aren't that important for a shooter. If you find one where the numbers match (not forced match), meaning the numbers haven't been lined-out or ground off (if they have been, it's a "forced match"). Generally, all-matching rifles are smoother in action than those force-matched.

Next thing is inspect the bores. If you don't have a bore light, the gun shop usually will, failing that, just remove the bolt (open the bolt, hold back the trigger, and it will slide right out) aim the barrel at a light source and you'll be able to see it well.
As noted above, the grooves will often be dark and rough. Look at the lands, they should be shiny and not pitted. Then examine the muzzle. As noted, look to see if the crown is gouged and/or the rifling is heavily worn at the end of the barrel. Counterbored barrels generally will shoot better than non-counterbored barrels, though aren't as "collectable" if that matters to you.

Other than that, just try to see fi the stock has any major splits or such that would require repair.

Mosins, like most other Soviet weapons are extremely tough and reliable. A 91/30 with a good bore will shoot pretty darn well. Mopst horror stories come from people who bought rifles with shot-out barrels, and pitted and corroded chambers. One reason I personally prefer to buy guns from a gun shop rather than ordering it. I get to inspect and handpick what I want. Plus, as noted, after you factor in the shipping and transfer fees, plus the hassel of maintaining a C&R bound book, you really don't pay much more for the gun shop model, and you save a lot of hassle. BTW $120 for a very good condition Mosin is right on from a gun shop.

Personal impressions of a Mosin 91/30:
They're sleek, balance well, shoot well, and are mean as hell looking (it IS after all, a five and a half foot long rifle with the bayonet attached). Oh yes, shoot it with the bayonet attached, that's how they were sighted in.

I prefer Mosins to Mausers.

 

[cracked butt]

i thought rough grooves didn't matter nearly so much as having sharp lands and a good muzzle,

Yup, I should have expanded on what I said. Most of the mosins will have dark grooves, but that doesn't hurt much- as the poster above said, the lands should be sharp and shiny. Pretty much has been the same experience for me with mosins.

 

[Lonestar.45]

91/30's are great values for the money right now. I'd wholeheartedly recommend you pick one up. I love mine.
When checking them out, as others have said, the most important things are: 1) matching numbers on the bolt, barrel, buttplate, triggerguard, etc (which should mean it's not a "parts gun" cobbled together); 2) a crisp clean bore (bring a bore light with you and check it out-you'll be glad you did); and 3) wood--some just look better than others, and some have arsenal repairs you may want to stay away from. I'd rank that last though, a matching gun with a good bore but shabby stock will be more fun to shoot than a beautiful wood stock with a rusty pitted bore and mismatched parts. Good luck.

 

[Toney]

One won't be enough

 

[jefnvk]

Don;t necesairialy count out the Mausers. I'll let you know straight up I prefer the Mauser to the Mosin anyday. Pick the one that looks the best.

As cracked butt said, the Egyptians are most likely Yugo M48's, not much history, but are really great guns. The Yugo I had would outshoot my German, and pretty much every other surplus gun except for maybe the Swede and Swiss.