Looking for Pistol Caliber Carbine (.40)

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Mr Black

New member
I'm considering getting a pistol caliber carbine sometime in the near future and was wondering if you all could give me some help. I only know of a relatively small number of choices but am sure there's much more out there. What are some possiblities? Here are my constraints:

1) Must be a .40 caliber (to match my Glock 23 and HK USP)

2) Should be of relatively high quality, durable, reliable

3) Should have good accuracy for a carbine

4) Should be in the $500 price range. I would still be interested in hearing about others but realistically, this is where I need to be.

5) Would be nice if it could hold 15+ round mags

6) Would be nice if I could mount different sights, laser, light, etc

7) Would be nice if it was a good looking gun. What defines this? It's totally subjective but I think few people would disagree that the MP5 is a damn-cool looking gun. All black would be nice.


To be honest the only ones I've ever heard of are:

1) HK MP5 - wow, this would be awesome but I hear they sell for several thousand dollars

2) Ruger Carbine - heard some good things about them but am concerned I wont be able to get more than 11 rounds

3) Kel-Tek (or Kel-Tec or something) - haven't heard much, some good, some bad. I think these accept Glock mags which is nice

4) Hi-Point - saw one at the range, have heard it's a cheap gun but surprisingly accurate

Thanks for any help you all can give me.
 
R

Rob Pincus

New member
I Don't know if the hi-point is available in .40.

The one you've missed (at least in your price range) is the Marlin. The Marlin, Ruger and Kel-Tec can all be modified to accept magazines from your Glock.. which is an added bonus, but cost a little more....

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-Essayons
 
D

Daniel Watters

New member
Mr Black: Unless you are an LEO of some sort and have an understanding supervisor, or are a licensed dealer, manufacturer, and/or importer of NFA weapons, you can rule out purchasing a MP5/40.

As for the Ruger PC4, Ken Christie Enterprises modifies the Ruger (and Marlin) carbines to accept Glock magazines.

Ken Christie Enterprises
7240 South Ridge
Madison, OH 44057
(216) 428-5551

I've also seen a nifty CAR15 .40 S&W conversion which used Glock magazines. It was reliable even in full-auto fire. Unfortunately, I don't believe that specific company (SOCOM Mfg.) builds/modifies any weapons for anyone other than LE/military agencies. However, I did notice that Olympic Arms ( www.olyarms.com ) is now offering a similiar magazine modification. You can find mention of the service, along with their .40 S&W AR15 uppers at: www.olyarms.com/pstlcal.html

PS to Rob: Last time I checked, the Marlin Camp Carbine wasn't available in .40 S&W.
 
C

Cat

New member
I bought a Ruger PC9 a couple of years ago. I wanted a PC4 but went with the 9 because of the availaility of high cap mags and cheaper ammo. It shoots very good. I put a Weaver 1-3x scope on it. It is very fast on target and reliable. I took my Ruger apart and cleaned it then shot it until it started to give feeding problems. It took about 500 rounds of factory and reloaded ammo before it failed. I clean it about every 250-300 rounds and never have any trouble with it.
I have fired a few Marlin Camp Carbines and consider them less reliable then the Ruger PCs, and much cruder, especially the triggers.
I fired a friends Hi-Point 9mm carbine. It was very accurate, (4" group at 100 yards off sand bags), But somewhat crude and the stock is fragile.
I have no personal experience with the other carbines mentioned.
Good luck.
Cat
 
A

ArizonaMorgan

New member
The Marlin isn't available in .40 so scratch that, or at least it wasn't last time I checked. The CARs are above your price range. And as mentioned the MP5 is out. That leaves the Kel-Tec and the Ruger. If you want to mount a scope then Ruger is the way to go at least for now (Kel-Tec is supposed to be working on a scope mount). Either of them will accept barrel mounted lasers or lights. The Ruger can be converted to use Glock mags (without the conversion you're limited to 11rds, unless there were any hicap .40 cal Ruger mags made, I don't think there were). The Kel-Tec is available from the factory with a Glock magwell. Either one with Glock mags will allow up to 29rds, possibly more. The Kel-Tec can be stored in a much smaller space than the Ruger. I believe that Taylor Freelance is working on some accesories specifically for the Kel-Tec. I don't know of any, but I'm sure that there are some accesories available for the Ruger. I personally don't like the looks of either one very much, they would both rate negatives in my book, but the Ruger would rate higher. So take your pick.

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N

Noel

New member
Mr. Black,

I will only add a very insignificant point to the thread.

Why consider the pistol carbine at all?

I know you have considered this question to reach you decision but would a reconsideration be in order?

Plus for pistol caliber carbine: Ammo interchangability, light, handy, low recoil.

Rifle caliber carbine: 223, 30-30, 7.62x39,
light, handy, low recoil, more accurate, more reliable, much more effective, more versatile.

I do not like the concept of pistol caliber carbines. Many people do like them. Just a thought.

Respectfully,

Noel
 
M

Mr Black

New member
Noel, you raise a very good point. I actually don't have a lot of data on PCC's but do understand that I would be sacrificing some power, accuracy, and versatility. Ammo and magazine interchangeability between my Glock and the carbine and the compactness of the weapon are my main motivating factors.

Anybody have any data on what sort of effective range these carbines have? Are we talking in the neighborhood of 50 or 75 yards? How about 100?

[This message has been edited by Mr Black (edited June 03, 1999).]
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
I'd like a Kel Tech. Nice and compact when folded, but has it been adapted to take a hi-cap Glock mag yet?

My second runner up would be the Ruger PCC. Tough gun and a bit heavy for what it is (about 7 lbs!). I expected something more in the 5 1/2-6 lb range, but that's blowback for you. Top this puppy off with something like the Bushnell Holosight and you've got quite an effective short range puppy. I tried to get my Chief to adopt this and the Ruger P94 as duty weapons. Head shots at 75 yards didn't turn him on.

What I really like, but it's outside the scope of this posting, is the MP5 in 40. It sure knocks down pepper poppers faster than those dwarf MP5 in 9mm.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
C

cornered rat

Moderator
Kel-tec offering has aperture rear sight, a plus in my book. Kel-tec EXCELLENT customer service is something to consider, too...

However, their offering MSRP is $700+, so I don't know...
[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited June 04, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited June 04, 1999).]
 
J

JJB

New member
CR,
Recent discussion on the KTOG suggests a street price for the sub 9 around $450, give or take a few bucks.

Jim in IN

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-- TANSTAAFL
 
R

Rich I

New member
I don't know the accuracy of the Sub-40, but I have a Kel-Tec Sub-9 and a Ruger PC-4. Both the Sub-9 and the PC-4 are accurate to 50 yards. I think the PC-4 was printing 2" to 3" groups at 50 yards last weekend but I didn't keep the targets. At 100 yards, the PC-4 was printing 4" to 5" groups with a couple flyers. It's been several months since the last time I used the Sub-9 beyond 25 yards. I seem to recall it printing 6" to 8" groups at 100 yards. The Sub-9 is more accurate than the PC-4 at 25 yards and probably more accurate at 100 yards as well. The PC-4 printed tighter groups at 100 yards because it has a 4-16x40 BSA scope mounted, whereas I used the ghost ring sights with the Sub-9.
I'll test both again indoors at 25 yards in a week or so and keep the targets this time. I'll be installing a laser on the Sub-9 next week and have it dialed-in at 25 yards. This should be interesting.
smile.gif


Later,
Rich
 
N

Noel

New member
Mr. Black,

I don't have data on effective [bold]range [/bold], but in the training at Thunder Ranch Clint Smith says, "most people shot with pistols don't die". Is that true for rifles? I don't know. Why do you want a light handy long barrel pistol?

Why not a light handy carbine or rifle?

Noel
 
L

Little-e

New member
In response to Daniel, why would you not be able to buy an MP5/40? I'm under the assumption that if you can find an NFA dealer that has one, pay the tax and do the paperwork, it's yours. Is that not correct?
 
D

Daniel Watters

New member
Little-E: All of the factory made MP5/40 are post-1986, and are thus non-transferable to individuals other than the specific exceptions cited above. The specific restrictions were tacked in as a trade for the loosening of certain GCA'68 provisions in the McClure-Volkmer (sp?) Gun Owners Protection Act.
 
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