Looking for load data with a 357/38 with a 358 caliber rifle bullet.

[Deja vu]

I am looking for some place that has load data for a cast lead .358 caliber rifle bullet loaded into 38 special or 357 magnum brass. I am doing some experimenting with a Ruger 77/357 Bolt action. Id like to try some really heavy bullets to see how they do. I am not looking for lots of speed just some thing that will go bang and be safe in pressure.

any one know where to look?

 

[Hammerhead]

Lyman #49 has data for 204 gr. lead rifle bullets (Lyman #358315) in the Contender/Encore section, but the OAL is 1.880", will that work in your magazine?

Otherwise the next step down is a 170 SWC revolver bullet at 1.647".

Speer #11 only has data for jacketed rifle bullets, but it might give you a place to start.

 

[Kosh75287]

Reaching back a ways.

I recall an old (1971) load for .38 Special and a 200 grain lead round nose from a 6" barreled S&W K-38. It was 7.8/Hercules 2400/200. I recall it, because it was the only load listed whose Bullet Weight x Velocity exceeded 160,000 (which, for reasons I no longer remember, was important at the time). Since the old projectile was designed for a pistol, it has a very long bearing surface, which means lots of rifling engagement, and (usually) great stability. Heavier projectiles NOT designed for handguns may have less bearing surface, and may not engage rifling enough to stabilize, especially at lower velocities. Higher velocities may or may not help things.

This load was from the days before we knew what "+P" meant, so I suspect the pressures were at or below 16,000 psi. As always, I suggest cutting the load 10% and working up.

Since these loads are going through a rifle, you may be able to load the heavier projectiles to a greater overall length, which often translates to lower pressures.

 

[Deja vu]

I dont know how long it will let me go. I already load my 357 magnums a little long because my Coonan and My Marlin would both cycle them well at the longer length. My Marlin never really did like 38 specials. I know there is still a bit of room. I tired a 357 maximum in the magazine and it was too long for the mag and for the chamber. So its some where between a long 357 magnum and a 357 maximum.

 

[Paul B.]

Kosh. I think the bullet you are referring to is the Lyman #358430, nominally a 190 gr. bullet. It casts to 200 gr. in my alloy. I loaded some to duplicate an old "Police" load for a friend. Shot quite well in an S&W M60 and K38.. Dunno why it was a "Police" load as it was pretty puny. Load was 3.5 gr. of Unique. I'll have to look but I think there may have been some data for H2400.

OK, from the Lyman #43 manual and 2400 (Hercules version) for the .357 Mag.
Start: 9.5 gr./655 FPS Max: 11.5 gr./ 1010 FPS

Unique:
Start: 3.5 gr./550 FPS Max: 5.5 gr./900 FPS

For the .38 Spl. only Bullseye and Unique are still around.
Bullseye:
Start: 2.0 gr./590 FPS Max: 2.7 gr./720

Unique:
Start: 2.0 gr./450 FPS Max: 4.0 gr./681 FPS

Note: Alliant states that their versions of Bullseye, Unique and 2400 are exactly the same as when Hercules made the powders. I personally take that Statement with a grain of salt. Remember this is from an older manual with less sophisticate pressure measuring techniques.
Paul B.

 

[Hammerhead]

You could always trim brass down so that the crimp falls in the right place with the OAL you need. A common practice for silhouette shooters.

 

[Hammerhead]

BTW, did you say Coonan? I'll be right over.

 

[Crankylove]

I've done 200 grain RN, and 250 SP (both for my 358 Winchester) in .38 and .357 cases.

I've loaded a few with Bullseye, but don't remember the powder charge.


Last few I did was Trailboss, about 90% load density. They aren't screaming fast, but we're good enough to kill soda cans and rotten pumpkins.

 

[Clark]

I bought a 100 year old rebarreled Remington rolling block rifle, that neither the seller nor I knew what cartridge or caliber. Turns out it is a tight chamber [0.380" untapered chamber] 38 special.
I overloaded it until it pierced the CCI 450 small rifle magnum primers.
I am trying to think of what else I can do with it.
I have my own 0.380 reamer and some 357 MAX brass.
I could shoot a deer with it, if I could find a pointed and maybe boat tailed bullet.
Running through the possibilities in Quickload and Quicktarget, I can see I want to buy a separate throater, and make the throat deep. Then I can seat bullets to a long overall length, making a larger volume for the powder. I can't really hunt with a 200 yard gun, but I can easily hunt with a 400 yard gun.

http://www.nosler.com/accubond-bullet/
The Nosler accubond .358" 200 gr bullet has 0.15" of taper in the rear.
The case is 1.6".
The bullet is 1.213"
The over all length is 1.990", but we don't have to fit in a revolver.
That would only leave 13.3 gr of H20 space in the case with that bullet.
That would get me to a) 1339 fps with a temp stable powder and b) 1748 fps with a ball powder

But at if only 0.1" of non tapered bullet is inserted, I could seat [and throat for] 1.6 + 1.213 - .15 - .1 = 2.563"
That makes a usable case capacity of 27.841 gr of H20, or nearly double.

That would get me to c) 2130 fps with a temp stable powder and d) 2350 fps with a ball powder.

In perspective, with a scope tube center 1.97" above the barrel bore and the rifle zero'ed at 200 yards, then the range of 8 moa of elevation correction [seems to be MY limit] would be:
1) muzzle V -> range @-8moa, V at @-8moa = energy @-8moa
a) 1339 fps -> 265 yards, 1050 fps = 450 foot pounds [1.99" with temp stable powder]
b) 1748 fps -> 305 yards, 1249 fps = 643 foot pounds [1.99" with ball powder]
c) 2130 fps -> 355 yards, 1448 fps = 931 foot pounds [2.563" with temp stable powder]
d) 2350 fps -> 385 yards, 1552 fps = 1083 foot pounds [2.563" with ball powder]

There are other things to consider. The 1339 muzzle would be 10" high at 50 yards when zero'ed at 200, and that is not really acceptable.

And will a 0.349" pilot throating reamer be a special order? Or can a .349" bushing fit on their off the shelf throater?

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Clark one of these days I need to pick your brain for some of that knowledge/experience. I think that day is fast approaching with a new purchase a few months away.