loading up my 9mm with glaser blue safety slugs

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loose_holster_dan

New member
i know hollow points do a lot of damage, but after seeing what happens to things hit by the glasers, i know what is sure to bring down the house. i decided to compare 45 hollow point damage to glaser 9mm damage from 5yds.

i had two freshly killed groundhogs my dog had proudly trotted up to the house with. they were about the same size. i set them up in roughly the same position and tried both rounds. the 45 physically shook the body, went right through, and left a decent exit wound. the glaser 9mm went in and literally exploded the body. i actually got some gore splashed on me from 5yds. it never even had an "exit wound" in the sense of a projectile leaving.

i tried the same thing on ears of corn. the 45 splits the corn. the glaser 9mm explodes the corn, sending corn everywhere.

next, i did the old soaking phone book routine. having done this before with the 45, i know the hollow point will still make it all the way through the first one, so i set up 2 (not the thin wimpy ones, i used the big ones). sure enough, the 45 went through one phone book and about 1/3 of the way into the second with fragments left behind. the glaser 9mm traveled about 2 1/2 inches in and made a cavern on the top side where it blew everything out. i wish i would have taken pictures. i may have to stage another one, so i can post some pictures.
 
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orionengnr

New member
No, thank you.
Glaser/Magsafe, etc., are notoriously poor penetrators.

Put bluntly, they are a "gimmick" round.
If I were giong to be attacked by ears of corn or dead gophers, they's be just the thing.

I'll stick with a quality JHP.

Do some searching, it may open your eyes.
 
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Stressfire

New member
poor penetration is the idea. it's designed to only go in so far and then break up.
Click to expand...

What is the desired outcome here? I ask because "poor penetration" is not typically desirable for a defense round. Are you trying to avoid through & throughs, or danger of shooting through walls, or what?
 
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C0untZer0

Moderator
Well you seem really excited about the Glaser Safety (non-slug) slug.

I guess it's not so "safe" for corn...

Maybe they should give these to riot police. If the rioters don't respond to the rubber buckshot - you shoot em with the "safety" slug.
 
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Shotgun693

New member
I was a Special Agent in Houston when HPD banned their use for Officers. During a vehicle stop an Officer walked up to the driver's door. The driver fired a shot at the Officer through a partially rolled down window. The Officer returned fire, firing one round of Glaser, I don't recalled the caliber, which struck the glass of the partially rolled down window. The Glaser burst on the window glass and peppered the driver with wet pellets. That was the end of their use in Houston. (I haven't worked over there in years so don't know current policy.)
 
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loose_holster_dan

New member
the idea is that it doesn't go through the bad guy and hit someone beyond. it also is designed to go as deep as internal organs and then spread. any barrier would render them useless. it's not a combat round. it's a self-defense round.
 
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.357SIG

New member
If it strikes a bone, even a rib, the round can lose all effectiveness. Penetration in tissue will vary, and will probably be minimal through dense tissue, especially if it fragments. I can think of a million reasons that this round can be a hindrance much more than it can be beneficial. Non-vital soft tissue destruction is next-to-worthless for stopping someone, and the chances of missing a vital are much greater with this underpenetrating round.
 
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Yung.gunr

New member
Dan, I don't think you will get much buy in here. I think most guys on here subscribe to the 14" of penetration that the FBI says. The idea is that if there is not enough penetration there will not be stopping (life stopping) trauma.

So.... With these Glaser Safety Slugs a lot of guys see them as "mere flesh wounds" (Monty Python is awesome).

I think I'm somewhere in between these two thoughts. I definitely like the idea of not having overpenetration, yet again I don't want them to have a messy but not stopping wounds.

Bottom line... There is no perfect round for a situation and the frangible ammo is very far from being in the running I feel.
 
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orionengnr

New member
the idea is that it doesn't go through the bad guy and hit someone beyond.
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I get it. In practice, it is a very rare round that fully penetrates your target and has enough remaining energy to harm someone who should be standing behind him.

Of far more importance is if you miss the BG...then (regardless of what you are shooting) you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your barrel.

it also is designed to go as deep as internal organs and then spread. any barrier would render them useless. it's not a combat round. it's a self-defense round.
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Negative. Internal organs are not 2 1/2" deep in an averge adult. The reason the FBI came up with their penetration standards was due to some critical failures...and that was with 9mm and .38/357 ammo that had "reasonable" penetration performance.

Take your chosen handgun in your normal firing grip, and look at yourself in a mirror. You will see that a clean shot at the COM will be obstructed by the handgun and the arms of the aggressor.

If you want to stop real aggresors, you need to be able to shoot through forearms or upper arms, into the chest cavity and penetrate deep enough to do damage to the internal organs. And many shooters "blade" themselves (that is, stand sideways to both decrease the frontal area and increase the amount of flesh that must be penetrated.

Glasers have repeatedly proven themselves to be totally ineffective when confronted with these obstacles...which is why nobody recommends or carries them.

Want to blast a large diameter, very shallow wound in a ham? Great.
Want to stop an attacker reliably? Not in the cards.

Again, do a search and see what the experts think of frangible rounds such as Glaser and MagSafe. They are marketed as a "miracle" round and are bought by people who want to believe you can get something for nothing.

Reality begs to differ.
 
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peacefulgary

New member
If I have to shoot someone who has turned so their side is toward me, I want my round go through their humerus and shoulder, travel crosswise through their lung, and still hit the heart.
I don't want my round to hit the humerus and shoulder and stop there.
 
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orionengnr

New member
No...Hydra-Shoks represent what was the cream of the crop 20 years ago. Their descendants, the HST, is a very creditable SD round (and by no coincidence, is used today by many LEAs).

Glasers represent what was the premium scam 20 years ago, and by no coincidence, is used by no-one at all.
 
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ClydeFrog

Moderator
The Bee's Knees....

Glasers(blue & the newer silver) have had mixed street results for years.
I find limited use for some frangible handgun ammunition but for general or duty use(s) there are better loads around.

ClydeFrog
 
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Frank Ettin

Administrator
Glasers have a very poor reputation for real world performance. Too much penetration may be undesirable, but so is too little penetration. You will want your bullet to penetrate your 200 pound attacker, who in winter may be wearing a heavy coat, deeply enough to have an appropriate physiological effect.

There are four ways in which shooting an assailant stops a fight:

[1] psychological -- "I'm shot, it hurts, I don't want to get shot any more."

[2] massive blood loss depriving the muscles and brain of oxygen and thus significantly impairing their ability to function

[3] breaking major skeletal support structures

[4] damaging the central nervous system.

Depending on someone just giving up because he's been shot is iffy. Probably most fights are stopped that way, but a lot aren't.

Breaking major skeletal structures can quickly impair mobility, but someone with a gun can still shoot.

Hits to the central nervous system are sure and quick, but the CNS presents a small and uncertain target.

The most common and sure physiological way in which shooting someone stops him is blood loss -- depriving the brain and muscles of oxygen and nutrients, thus impairing the ability of the brain and muscles to function. Blood loss is facilitated by (1) large holes causing tissue damage; (2) getting the holes in the right places to damage major blood vessels or blood bearing organs; and (3) adequate penetration to get those holes into the blood vessels and organs which are fairly deep in the body. The problem is that blood loss takes time. People have continued to fight effectively when gravely, even mortally, wounded. So things that can speed up blood loss, more holes, bigger holes, better placed holes, etc., help.

So as a rule of thumb --

[1] More holes are better than fewer holes.

[2] Larger holes are better than smaller holes.

[3] Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.

[4] Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.

[5] There are no magic bullets.
 
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Mello2u

New member
Glaser Blues are great for fast energy release on small targets such as groundhogs, wet paper, and gallon water jugs. They are a poor choice for a defensive cartridge.

As stated in many places by many authorities (I paraphrase):
The primary mechanism of threat incapacitation is loss of blood pressure due to trauma done to vascular tissue. The diameter and depth account for the volume of tissue damages and the rate of blood loss. This assumes proper shot placement.

With the Glaser Silver (5") you get less than half of the minimum penetration (12") that is commonly accepted. You would do much better with some reliable hollow point design.
 
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rex_lee

New member
It sounds like glasers would be great if you are hunting ground hogs, or ears of corn. From what I understand of ballistics, not really a good choice for defense.
 
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