Loading Light Charges, Dangerous?

U

Uncle Buck

New member
I was reading in one of my books (Loadbooks, The complete Reloading Manual for the .45 colt, page 30, Starting Loads. ) that you should never go below the listed starting charge for a given powder/bullet combo.

"Never decrease this charge as an increase in pressure could be encountered."

I do not understand how an increase in pressure could happen when you are using a smaller than suggested starting load. I would think that you would/might encounter squibs (Bullets stuck in the barrel).

Could someone explain this please. I have some starting loads that I want to reduce, probably by 10% so that I have very little recoil for the kids. Thanks.
 
D

daleo8803

New member
im new to reloading but never heard that before..... my book, modern reloading by lee, says when first starting always use 10% less than the smallest charge to be safe. then move up. maby someone with more experence can help.

dale
 
W

wezalsgunsupply

New member
I never even end up as hot as the start load.

I have been reloading for over 20 years hand gun ammo. I load mainly lead bullets. After enough years of practice I mainly go back to the book to double check OAL and such. But I generally start at about 80% of the starting load. I rarely end up at the starting load in the books. If your just punching paper and banging steel which I do. Why burn more powder and more recoil just to plink. My loads are such. 38 spl. 2.2 gr Bullseye the 148 gr wadcutter. Shoots good but way below book. 44 mag with 240 gr semi wad 7 gr unique. Start at about 80% of book starting loads and just find where your gun shoots the best and ride it.
 
O

Ozzieman

New member
I’m with Blue on this. And thanks for bringing that thread up, it was good reading.
I have reduced loads for 45 LC and other calibers that work, but I don’t like them for several reasons.
1. Try as I can I was never very happy with accuracy and 2, they are just dirty. The cases don’t expand enough to seal and I get much dirtier cases and gun. I use the 80% as absolute minimum (80% from minimum recommended) for wheel guns but for most target loads its normally mid range of recommended load for the powder I’m using. Your best bet is to go with as light a bullet as possible, that will help recoil more than messing with possible dangerous loads.
Here is a good source for light lead bullets. His 200 gr RNFPBB is a nice combination with Herco, use any manuals minimum load and recoil is light and they will shoot clover leafs. It will also work well in 45 ACP.
Also to keep the weight and recoil very low he has a 152 GR semi wad cutter for 45 caliber from .451 to .455 diameters. With that bullet your gun??? would shoot like a 38 sp.

http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html

But with that said, even though I have never heard of an actual damaged gun by low loads detonation, I have seen a lever action that blew up a barrel from a squib load. He was loading very light loads for shooting in his basement range and they were so light he didn’t realize one stuck in the barrel and he shot another and bulged the barrel.
 
U

Uncle Buck

New member
Thanks guys. I never thought to search for low load detonation. Still learning and loving reloading even more every day.
The info on the other thread was very helpful, except for the comment by the guy who said "All old news." If folks like you did not share your info, I would be lost.
 
C

Cult .44

New member
Here's what the VihtaVuori manual says in its cowboy action shooting section ...

3) Risks for underload detonation

This risk is always present when using highly reduced loads of any smokeless powder. The large free space in the case may generated a pressure wave which can cause, in the worst case, powder to burn as a schock wave, i.e. to detonate, instead of normal fast burning process. The extremely sharp pressure peeks involved in detonation can destroy the weapon and may lead to serious injury.
Click to expand...

VihtaVuori loading data page
 
U

Unclenick

Staff
There's also a description that used to be accompanied by a photo at a Finnish gun writer's site of a Mauser .308 action blown up by 3.1 grains of N320 under a lead bullet. Way too little to have anything to do with flashover or double charges or any of the other usual suspects. It's rare, though. The stars apparently have to line up just right.
 
S

sourdough44

New member
I just stick with listed data from a reputable source. Some books show max data & say to start at a reduced % that they give. Some powders are more forgiving to reduced charges. The slower powders if reduced to much can lead to problems. Whatever your goal is there is likely a suitable powder for your load. Let's say one wants to overload a 357 mag? If so it's time to get a 44 mag.
 
B

Bud Helms

Senior Member
Search the string "detonation" in Handloading and Reloading forum, Search in "entire posts".

There's an old thread at the end where Randy Garrett chimes in on reduced loads, specifically W296.
 
W

wezalsgunsupply

New member
SASS loads

Another place to find decent popper loads is thru the single action shooters. Most are using trail boss. These guys are loading enough to go bang.
 
M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
My loading mentor & I were discussing this a while back... ( he's a retired tool & die guy thats been building guns, reloading, & casting bullets his whole life )

while there are all the normal scientific reasons listed in the other links for "detonation"... my buddy suspected that alot of the detonations out there likely included using double based powders ( yes there are lots of instances of it happening with single based powders too ), so it's not the sole cause, but in his opinion the nature of double based powders are more conductive to "detonation" than single based powders...

also... just because you are trying to do a reduced load, doesn't mean you need to have a 10% fill on your case... bulkier powders ( something like Trailboss, & to some effect Unique ) are IMO, safer powders to use for pop gun loads, because the case will still contain more powder than air...

has anyone tried adding corn meal to your reduced loads like what you would in doing a smokeless load on a large black powder case ???

to the O.P. IMO as listed in most manuals, starting loads should be reduced 10%... so 10% less than starting loads should likely be safe... anything more, & you are in possibly dangerous uncharted territory...

... & yes, my exprience too, that light loads are often very dirty... increasing the crimp can help on some loads & cartridges, but can't fix everything...
 
P

PCJim

New member
Gents, let's not confuse the 10% reduction that some manuals or load publishers use as a guideline. Reloading recipes are, for almost all circumstances, given as either a min/max charge or a do not exceed/maximum charge only. The 10% reduction guideline only applies to those recipes where a maximum charge is given.

If a minimum powder charge is stated for a recipe, that is the minimum charge. Do not drop a stated minimum charge another 10%.
 
B

Bud Helms

Senior Member
None of my manuals have a "minimum" load. They all have a starting load and a max load.

Reducing a starting load by 10% should not be a problem, but I wonder why you would do it.

The only time I ever had a need to go there was when I was downloading .45 ACP waay down, with reduced recoil spring and 185 gr flat points, to compete in a local Practical/Tactical Pistol Match. The course of fire was timed. It helped keep the muzzle down and repeat shots (doubles) were quicker. But the only safety related reason to reduce a starting load is your own caution. Nothing wrong with that if you feel the need, I suppose. Most accurate loads will be somewhere within the published load range. There are exceptions.

By the way, before I load for a new cartridge, I read everything I can find in all my reloading books before I do anything. Starting loads vary. I may use a starting load from one book that is below that in another ... everything else being the same.

All that said, there is a reason for reading everything you can about the cartridge you're loading and the powder you're using. There are powders for which the mfr specifically cautions against reducing loads. Notable among those is W296. So read the manuals. Buy more. Read them too.

That's one of my pet peeves. If the new handloaders here would get a couple of good manuals and read them, they would come here with better questions and quit asking things like, "What's the best powder for my pistol?" :rolleyes:
 
U

Unclenick

Staff
The only rule of thumb I've heard is that many rifle powders are unhappy below about 70% case fill under the bullet, and that accuracy has fallen off for most of them by then, anyway. That could well relate to the double pressure spike effect described earlier. Detonation seems to be reported mostly with charges filling a rifle case around 10% or less, but don't treat that as gospel.


Magnum Wheel Man,

Corn meal and other cereal fillers used to be common among users of reduced load for rifle rounds, but there were persistent reports of chamber ringing (a bulge ring forming in the chamber) from doing it. One fellow reported firing tens of thousands of cereal stuffed rounds and thought the chamber thing was all nonsense or due to hot loads until he discovered a ring had appeared in one of his rifles. Almost as unpredictable as detonation in some loads, but instant ringing with others.

As a result of all that, all the former cereal filler users I know have abandoned that practice, instead using tufts of polyester (Dacron) pillow stuffing from Wally World to hold powder down against the flash hole. The tufts melt down to a disk so thin it occupies little case volume so it can't offer a lot of resistance to build ringing pressures against. I've heard of no problems with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top