Loading cast .44

[RB98SS]

I recently ordered some of these....

http://www.pennbullets.com/44/44200rnfpbb.html

I have not loaded .44 cast bullets before but have loaded jacketed for some time now. Can I load these using the very low end of jacketed data for the powder listed? I have an extensive list of powders that I currently have on hand that are good for .44 and .50 AE. Amongst them are Blue Dot, 2400, H110, AA9, N110, AA5, Universal, and Bullseye. Where do I begin?

It's for a Model 29 6 1/2.

Thanks in advance.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

Are you wanting data for Special or Magnum?

If Magnum, those things are gonna lead up on you.

Jeff

 

[Scorch]

I load cast in my 44 Mag all the time, but at reduced velocities. Keep the velocity below 1000 fps and you will usually avoid leading. At that velocity, I use Unique. Of the powders listed, Universal will be your best powder. For load data, get a Lyman loading handbook.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

Only cast bullets I have ever been able to load to Magnum specs/velocities and not encounter leading are the ones I got from Mike at Mastercastbullets.com. And even then, I still generally load only jacketed bullets for ANY magnum rounds I load. Every other cast bullet (with the exception of linotype bullets cast by individuals) has leaded my barrel pretty bad.

Rather than "load down" my Magnums, I load Specials instead. 'Course, Special cases are a bit more rare than Magnum cases.

But if the OP is wanting to load 200 gr cast bullets to Magnum specs, of even close, they are gonna lead up his barrel. I think I've got some data somewhere in the shop for 200 gr cast bullets and will go look for it.

Jeff

 

[SL1]

RB98SS,

I am guessing that you are interested in those bullets to produce light loads. If so, your faster powders ("AA5, Universal, and Bullseye") are your best bets. Lee's manual lists:
200 gr lead bullet in 44 sp case:
Universal 5.5 start
6.5 max vel = 960 press = 12,900 CUP
AA5 6.4 start
7.4 max vel = 959 press = 14,000 CUP
200 gr lead bullet in 44 mag case:
Universal 6.8 start
7.8 max vel = 1045 press = 15,400 CUP

If you really want to shoot them faster, say at 44 mag velocities for 200 gr jacketed bullets, then you will want to start with your slower powders "Blue Dot, 2400, H110, AA9, N110". The web site you linked says these bullets are "rated to 1600 fps." But, I would not expect to get there without a lot of leading and probably excessive pressure. Jacketed bullet pressures for loads of that velocity are in the 35,000 PSI range and higher. Lead bullets will typically go faster than jacketed bullets at the same pressure UP TO THE POINT WHERE THE PRESSURE EXCEEDS THE COMPRESSIVE STRENGTH OF THE LEAD ALLOY used to make the bullet. At that point, pressures can increase rapidly as the charge weight is increased. If these bullets are cast from typical wheel weight alloy, they are probably good to pressures no higher than about 25,000 psi. In strong guns like your Model 29, you can find out where to stop working up the charge by looking for the accuray decrease that is usually apparent when the lead alloy compressive strength is exceeded. But, be careful working up charges for these particular bullets, because the bevel base design does not lend itself to accuracy in high-intensity loadings. If you don't find reasonable accuracy at modest loads, don't just keep adding powder and look for really bad groups to change to awful groups. Exceeding the alloy's compressive strength may not be apparent under those circumstances.

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (1980) lists:

200 gr (VERY DIFFERENT GC) cast bullet in 44 mag cases:
Blue Dot 15.8 start vel = 1062 press = 22,800 CUP
19.8 max vel = 1363 press = 36,800 CUP
2400 19.0 start vel = 991 press = 20,400 CUP
24.0 max vel = 1314 press = 34,600 CUP

Even these starting loads are actully pretty hot and are for lineotype alloy, which is a little harder than water-quenched wheel weight alloy. So don't expect to get much over these starting loads, much less anywhere near the these maxes. You can actually start lower than these start loads with these two powder, and that is probably a good idea.

Be careful and have fun.

SL1

 

[somerled]

Scorch is right about the powder. Universal is the best choice of the ones you listed. Hodgdon's data shows a starting load of 6.8 grains in .44 Mag cases. I think that would be a good start and the velocity isn't high enough to have you scraping lead out of the Model 29.

Unique is a good powder for the .44 and commercially-cast lead bullets. Alliant lists a charge of 6.0 to 6.8 grains of Unique for a 205 grain cast lead bullet.

If you have extremely hard lead bullets cast from linotype alloy, leading isn't a such a problem at magnum velocities.

 

[RB98SS]

Thanks guys,

I am planning on light loads for plinking at the range. I have special and magnum cases so I think I'll load up a bit of each. Thanks for the info.

 

[big_ed]

Get the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and the Lyman Handgun Manual these probably cover Cast bullets better than anything. Also ,if you don't already, subscribe to Handloader Magazine and SAVE every issue.

Lyman #429421 over 9.5 grains Unique.
also
Bulk 240 gr. with @the same charge work well.
both with Standard Large Pistol primers.

 

[zxcvbob]

Use the .44 Magnum brass and .45 Colt data towards the upper end of the standard pressure loads for similar weight bullets and you'll be in good shape.

Do not use .45 Colt "Ruger Only" load data in .44 brass or it might be dangerously over-pressure.

Herco is an outstanding powder for powerful cast bullet loads. With the powders you have listed, I think I'd start with Universal.

Big bore revolvers were made for cast bullets. Look for some 240 grainers, but the one you linked ought to be good too.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

Data for 44 SPECIAL 200 LSWC (cast) with various powders

Rummaged through my notes and info and found these loads for cast 200 grain 44 Special. I'll look around some more for any notes/info I have on shooting light cast loads in 44 Magnum. I personally don't do it--I load up Specials instead, but that's just me. I probably SHOULD work up some good, consistent cast loads for 44 Magnum--be good info to have readily at hand.

Anyhow, here is the data I found for loading 44 Special with cast 200 gr (lead) boolits. These loads are not specific for tin/lead or linotype/lead, etc--just "cast" boolits.

Powder Min Charge FPS Max Charge FPS

H4227 13.0 879 15.0 1051
HS-6 8.0 856 9.5 1035

Unique (Universal) 5.5 802 6.5 960
HP38 4.5 743 5.5 918

TiteGroup 4.5 846 5.4 973
Clays 3.5 748 4.5 891
Trail 4.3 757 6.3 885

I'll see what I can dig up for 44 Magnum.

Jeff

 

[RB98SS]

Thanks for the data Jeff.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

Data for 44 MAGNUM 200 gr cast bullets

Okay, it helps if I look in the right filing cabinet in the shop . . . anyhow, here is some data and notes I found on reloading 44 Magnum with 200 grain cast bullets. Apparently, according to my notes, I HAVE reloaded some light magnum rounds with 200 LSWCHPs. My notes also say that I didn't like them much and recommended working more on a comparable 44 Special load using the same (200 gr cast bullet).

I think I ended up with something like 5.8 of Bullseye pushing that 200 gr LSWCHP, but would have to double-check. I've long since moved away from the 200 gr cast bullets to the 240 gr bullets--I seem to have better success with longer range silouhette shooting with them.

So, here is the data I dug up:

44 Magnum 200 gr cast bullets

Unique 6.8--897 7.8--1045

HP38/W231 5.8--875 7.4--1039

​

Hope this helps or gives you a safe starting point.

Jeff

 

[Travis Two]

The .44 200 gr. RNFP bullets from www.pennbullets.com are available in two different alloys for low or high speed loadings. The premium alloy which I have used in the 240 gr. version will take 1500 fps. easily with 24.0 grs. of WW 296. without leading. The Cowboy Action Alloy which I have used in .38 125 gr. I run at 825 fps. with no problem. The 340gr. SSK in .45 I have loaded to 1700 fps. in the .454 Casull with no problems and no gas check. This company has one of the most extensive line of bullets and alloys I have ever encountered. Real good stuff.

 

[RB98SS]

Travis, nice to hear that you're happy with them. This is obviously my first cast purchase.

 

[wncchester]

I got my 29/6 1/2" in late '67 and started the first loads from a then new Lyman #43 manual. The load I settled on was a hard cast Lyman #429244/255 gr. SWC-GC sized to .429 and lubed with the original Allox/beeswax formula over 13/Unique (my #46 manual lists a max of 12.1/Unique for that bullet). That charge remains my magnum load, recently chronographed at 1275 fps, it may be a little too hot for the 29 but I've shot a lot of 'em.

In the early 70s I and a buddy used to plink beer cans tossed into a fast stream and waited till they got about 75 yards away, few lived passed 85 yards (yeah, I know but that was before anyone thought much about it).

Thing is, with a moderately hard alloy and good lube I just never had any leading problem nor did my friend with a simular load in his .357 and they shot great at magnum velocities.

 

[Ozzieman]

I load lead for both special and mag, although for the mag I usually use lead bullets with a gas check if I’m look for hotter rounds.
For lighter loads Herco works very well but it’s a little dirty.
Also thanks for the web site, I would be interested in any history in working with them. I am in need of LARGE quantity of bullets and wondered how they are as a business.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

The undisputed best 44 caliber cast bullets I have loaded and shot in over twenty years came from Mike at Mastercastbullets.com. A few others have come pretty close, but so far, no cast bullets have done better than his.

I've never used a gas check on a handgun round. I was fortunate to have a conversation with Glenn Fryzell several years ago, and he brought up the best point I've ever heard about gas checks in quality cast bullets. Paraphrasing, it went something like this:

For the nano-second that the bullet is in the barrel, and given how long it takes lead to melt, I just don't see what a gas check is going to do for a handgun round in a short handgun barrel.​

And given the increased price of gas checks these days, plus the pita dealing with them, I just--personally--haven't (yet) run into a situation where I've needed them.

Jeff

 

[RB98SS]

Also thanks for the web site, I would be interested in any history in working with them. I am in need of LARGE quantity of bullets and wondered how they are as a business.

This will be my first reloading batch of cast bullets so I have very little experience with this caster, let alone any caster. I got the website and info from either this site or THR, I don't remember. All of the feedback I found was positive so I decided to give them a try. Maybe do a search and you'll be able to get more info from some other customers of his.

I have already received a phone call from him regarding some order info he needed and he was very pleasant to talk to and was helpful with suggesting load recommendations. The bullets I ordered come in two flavors, cowboy and magnum. He needed to know what type I wanted and made suggestions after I explained what I would predominantly use them for.

Give him a call or drop an email.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

This will be my first reloading batch of cast bullets so I have very little experience with this caster, let alone any caster.

From what I understand, this guy has been around for a while (pennbullets) and has a very good reputation.

Since you're in unchartered territory (first time using cast bullets), what I found was helpful in determining if the caster was worth my financial risk was to simply ask around about him.

This is so much easier today, thanks to the internet, than it was twenty years ago. Back then, I cussed casters on a regular basis and with a vengeance. At our IPSC club, we started keeping our targets and comparing cast loads. When we found a caster who produced CONSISTENT bullets (even a blind squirrel can occasionally find a nut. . . ), we did our level best to keep him in both lead and business.

Most reloaders I know are more than happy to share target and load information, so the internet becomes a fantastic resource for taking a lot of the gamble out of trying new things, new suppliers, etc.

Try you several different load configurations for those pennbullets and see which loads give you the best groups. Save the targets (or snap some digital pics of them), and then should you ever try a different brand of cast bullets, do the same thing so you can compare apples to apples.

Pretty soon, you build yourself a niftly little database.

Jeff

 

[Ozzieman]

Again thanks for the info on Penn bullets.
Just placed an order for 5000 in 44 and 45.
He was also very nice in locating for me a 1000 round ball for 44 cap and ball at a VERY good price.
He was also very interesting to talk to and from the little casting of bullets that I have done seem to know a LOT about metallurgy and his business.
Looking forward to making holes in paper with his bullets.
Thanks every one.