Load Data for Hornady 44 Special 300 gr XTP

[RoyceP]

I picked up a box of Hornady 300 Gr bullets hoping to find data so I can use them in 44 special. Unfortunately, unlike every other load I can imagine, the internet seems to not have anything. I have several loading manuals. Nothing about 300 grain bullets in 44 special anywhere.

Any ideas? These need to be loads on the light side because I plan to shoot them in my Cimarron Open top .44 Special Model 1872.

 

[44 AMP]

Any ideas?

yes, sell the slugs outright, or trade them for an equal value of lead bullets, 240gr or so. I doubt you'll find any data for the 300gr XTP in .44 Special, simply because it is an unsuitable bullet.

Its an over heavy for bore size jacketed bullet designed for deep penetration driven as hard as the .44 Magnum can.

Shooting it out of a .44 Special is a waste of the bullet's potential, and its cost. SO, since its something most people won't do, nobody has bothered to test and list data for it.

Find reputable data first, THEN get those components is a better way than the reverse.

 

[buck460XVR]

Find reputable data first, THEN get those components is a better way than the reverse.

^^^This. Something I've said a thousand times on reloading forums. If you can't readily find published loads for specific bullet/powder/caliber combos, there's a reason and it ain't because it hasn't been tried. There may be info out there for 300 grainers in .44 special, but odds are, the velocity will be too slow to stabilize the long bullet for accurate shooting.

 

[RoyceP]

The reason is that my gun shoots about 4" low with 240 grain 44 Special loads. A heavier bullet should shoot higher. Not trying to duplicate 44 Magnum here. The cost is still far less than buying factory ammo.

 

[Unclenick]

Sounds like you are hoping to avoid lowering the front sight, though that would be my approach.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Part of the reason you are not finding data is that even in .44 Magnum the length of the 300-grain bullet takes up half the powder space. QuickLOAD claims about 3.5 grains of Bullseye would move it and could go to 3.9, but this is not attempting to account for gas escape through the barrel/cylinder gap. Unique loads would be about half a grain higher.

The jacketed bullet takes a lot more force to swage into the throat than a lead bullet does, which would make lead preferable in this situation. Because of gas escape from the barrel/cylinder gap, there is a chance of sticking the XTP in the bore, so you'd have to be prepared for that to happen. Loading higher to avoid that will risk stretching the open-top frame. In your shoes, if I just had to try this out and couldn't sell the XTPs to acquire some lead bullets, I would strongly recommend rubbing a dry lube like moly onto these bullets which will reduce the engraving force significantly (by about 2/3).

 

[44 AMP]

The reason is that my gun shoots about 4" low with 240 grain 44 Special loads.

First step, for me anyway, would be to have someone(s) else shoot the gun and see if they get the same results.

An open frame revolver using a V notch in the hammer as the rear sight isn't exactly known as a precise system.

Have you considered altering the "standard" sight picture to get on target? Not talking about filing on the gun (yet) but simply holding up more front sight when you aim?

 

[Unclenick]

You can also take a little Liquid Paper and whiten the too-tall part of the front sight to do a confirmation test on the amount of change with your eyes before committing to front sight surgery.

 

[sparkyv]

...from Brian Pearce article. It can get you close. It's the only data I've found for anything over 255gr. YMMV

 

[105kw]

Is the rear sight a notch on the rear of the barrel?
You might try holding up more front sight in the notch.

 

[big al hunter]

My suggestion is to load 240 gr bullets slower to simulate the affect of using 300 gr. The real difference is the velocity change will cause the bullet to stay in the barrel longer during recoil. No more low hits. You can play with the velocity until it works. Then you can sell the 300 gr bullets to someone with a magnum and a desire to hunt large bears like me

 

[FrankenMauser]

Chalk it up to a mistake.
I just went back to 1958 with my reloading manuals and "load notes" from notable historic figures. Not a single entry for a bullet over 255 gr in .44 S&W Special - not even cast bullets.

I see two options:
1. Sell the bullets and commit the mistake to memory.
2. Buy a .44 Mag revolver, seat to .44 Mag length, and load accordingly for that revolver (not the Cimarron).

 

[RoyceP]

So maybe 4 - 5.4 grains of Unique? The gun has a 5 1/2" barrel. I suspect they use the same sights for the 7 1/2" version. Maybe it hits correctly with that barrel length.

I am also intrigued with the idea of slowing the 240 grain bullets down. That's helpful.

 

[Unclenick]

Messing with the powder charge will disappoint you, I expect. I tried that with a fairly hefty Dan Wesson with a 6" barrel in .357 magnum years ago. The amount of vertical shift in point of impact (POI) with powder charge proved to be small compared to changing bullet weight.

What affects the vertical POI in a revolver is how much the recoil moment pivoting around your grip elevates the muzzle before the bullet clears it. There are two things that can increase that elevation: increasing recoil force and increasing barrel time. But what happens when you change the powder charge weight is those two factors change in opposite directions, tending to cancel each other out. That is, lower the charge and you reduce the recoil force, but lengthen the barrel time. Raise the charge and you increase the recoil force but shorten the barrel time.

The two effects don't cancel exactly. This is because the average force on the base of the bullet accelerates it, and acceleration is a function of the square of time. So halving the average force pushing the bullet base only increases the barrel time by a factor of the square root of 2 (1.4142…) and not by an exactly compensating factor of 2. Nonetheless, when I did the experiment back the 1980s, if memory serves, changing between 125 and 158-grain bullets shifted POI in my revolver about 3-4" (maybe at 50 feet; I don't recall the test range any longer), while running a wide range of powder charges under either bullet only made about 1" of difference. I may not be remembering the numbers exactly, but the difference in the relative effect on POI is along the lines of those sorts of ratios.

If you shoot the 300's and find the compensation incorrect, you can at least find out what the POI difference for that weight made, and then order cast bullets or even a custom mold for exactly the weight you need. A simple linear interpolation or extrapolation should be pretty close. If you need help with that, PM me.

If you take a cleaning patch or a bit of rag and rub molybdenum disulfide powder on the bullet and put a little pinch on top of the powder in the case, you will find you reduce the engraving force of those jacketed bullets to nearly the level of a cast bullet. It's a good way to get an estimate of what you need. You might find you need a 285-grain bullet or a 325-grain bullet or some other value to get your sights timed exactly.

 

[buck460XVR]

The reason is that my gun shoots about 4" low with 240 grain 44 Special loads.

...at what yardage? As Unclenick stated, just loading a heavier bullet is not going to guarantee your POI will change, especially if the POI is 4" low at a relatively short distance(as in 10-15 yards). Even then, will overall accuracy be any good with the heavy for caliber projectile?