Llama Sticking Shells

[PPBart]

I'm a virtual newbie to handguns -- haven't owned one for decades, haven't even fired one in years -- until just a few days ago. An elderly acquaintance gave me a Llama Commanche 1 revolver. At the time, he said he had purchased the gun in ~1983, fired it a few times, then put it away and forgot about it until doing some closet-cleanout recently. The gun looks like new, and despite the generally negative comments I've read on the net, it does seem to have good fit/finish. I checked it over, cleaned it up, then took it to the local Bass Pro Shop range. I loaded it with Federal LR first and fired 6 rounds. When I tried to eject the shells, they really wouldn't budge at all. The range tech saw my difficulty and brought a small brass hammer with which he tapped the ejector rod (terminology?) until the shells came out. He suggested trying different ammo, so I bought a box of Winchester -- same problem. The cylinder bores (terminology?) were thoroughly cleaned, so I don't think it was a matter of gunk sticking the shells in place. Is this a common problem? How to correct it?

BTW -- I saw the donor again yesterday and told him about the problem. He said something along the line of "Oh, yes, that happened to me, too. That's why I put it aside and forgot about it."

EDIT -- It occurred to me that the cylinder bores might be a little rough (although I cannot see anything to support that) and that could be causing the shells to stick when they expand. Maybe I could smooth the bores with lapping compound?

 

[g.willikers]

Assuming the new rounds go into the cylinder chamber holes ok, then the first place to look is the surface of the chambers.
They might have been roughly finished at the factory and need some light polishing.
Use a polishing compound and a suitable tool to remove any imperfections.
Try to make the chambers as smooth as possible.
This should help.
Lapping compound is way too harsh, so use something just for polishing metal.
You don't want to actually remove metal, just smooth it of imperfections.
The chamber dimensions are critical.

 

[skidder]

Assuming the new rounds go into the cylinder chamber holes ok, then the first place to look is the surface of the chambers.
They might have been roughly finished at the factory and need some light polishing.
Use a polishing compound and a suitable tool to remove any imperfections.
Try to make the chambers as smooth as possible.
This should help.

Good advice from g.wilikers

PPBart-- These guns are extra sensitive due to the fact they do not have oversize chambers. If this is a 357 there might be some crud built up in the chamber from 38's being fired in your 357. Look for a "crud ring" in the throat of your cylinder. You could also try firing 38's and see if they extract easier.

Food for thought-- I have a Llama 38 and I have to keep my brass separate. Only about half of my reloads will fit in my Llama if they were previously fired in my Rugers (slight bulge at base due to oversize chambers in my Rugers). My four Rugers will gobble them all like candy. By keeping my brass seperate, they don't expand beyond the chamber they were originally fired in. This prevents them from sticking during loading and extracting.

I took a chance and grabbed this Llama 38 for $90 and I'm glad I did. It is accurate and the trigger-pull blows doors on all my other revolvers: lightest, smoothest, shortest trigger pull I have ever had in a revolver. I have a feeling this thing has seen a lot of action. Don't give up on it , I have 8 DA revolvers and this one has earned its spot on the night stand.

 

[g.willikers]

Good point.
Not all guns are made exactly to spec.
Isn't that why Demel tools were invented?

 

[PPBart]

New rounds (.22LR) slide into the cylinder chamber holes smoothly, so I'll try the polishing compound -- but I'm not sure just what would be a "suitable tool" (?). First thought was to wrap a bore patch round a brush, chuck it into a vari-speed drill, apply some compound and have at it.

And thanks for the warning about lapping compound.

 

[g.willikers]

That'll work, but go easy.
If it's a variable speed drill use a slow speed.
And use it in very short spurts.
The idea is to only polish, not to change dimensions.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

My bet is the chambers are peened from dry firing, or the chambers have build up from using shorts.
Peened chambers sometimes will accept a cartridge, but when the firing pin strikes it, the rim is forced further into the chamber.

 

[PPBart]

OK, as a newbie I have to admit I don't know what is meant by "peened", nor how it is caused, nor (if it exists) how to correct it.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

If the gun has been dry-fired, the firing pin can hit the edge of the chamber, "peening" it.

 

[PPBart]

I have done very little dry-firing of this pistol, but don't know about the previous owner. Not sure about what too look for, but examination of the cylinder does show some dents (peens?) at consistent spots on the rim of most chambers. Assuming this to be the case, what corrective action is appropriate (or possible)?

 

[jfremder]

>>I have done very little dry-firing of this pistol, but don't know about the previous owner. Not sure about what too look for, but examination of the cylinder does show some dents (peens?) at consistent spots on the rim of most chambers. Assuming this to be the case, what corrective action is appropriate (or possible)? <<

I have same gun, same vintage, same exact issue. I finally found ammo it likes, but alas I can't remember what kind... here's my thread on the same subject http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462787

 

[PPBart]

I really don't think the peening is contributing to my problem here. Last evening I polished each chamber for about a minute with a patch wrapped around a brush chucked in a vari-speed drill. Then I tried inserting a spent shell. I could feel very distinct resistance to insertion in every chamber. I repeated that process several times, and noted some improvement. The bores are all (visually) completely smooth. I will do some more polishing today, at least for a few more cycles; however, I am a bit leery of going too far(!)

As for ammo choices, I've tried Winchester and Federal. Not sure what other brands are readily available, but I'll try whatever is there.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

DON'T file or otherwise abrade the cylinder peening! The displaced metal should be moved back into place with a tapered tool. This is best left to a gunsmith. If you don't understand how peening can keep cartridges from seating properly, you shouldn't be working on your own gun.

 

[jfremder]

"DON'T file or otherwise abrade the cylinder peening!"

Why is filing the wrong approach? Not arguing, just trying to learn...

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The metal has been displaced, and it needs to be moved back into place. If the metal is removed, the peened depression remains. A rimfire shell needs to be compressed on the rim (where that metal is missing) to fire.

 

[g.willikers]

On the other hand, I have a .22 autoloading rifle that had the same problem, the dry fire peening.
Too many times it was run out of ammo with the trigger pulled on an empty chamber.
Figuring there was nothing to lose, since it wasn't feeding worth a hoot as it was, I cleaned up the entrance to the chamber with a small round file.
Just enough until reliable feeding resumed.
So, far all is well.
Maybe the .22 ammo has enough meat on the rim to work ok, even with the damaged area under it.
There might be significant differences in that regard in the ammo that's sold.

 

[PPBart]

>>>I will do some more polishing today, at least for a few more cycles<<<

I took the Llama to the range today and shot ~120 rounds. Spent shells now eject smoothly with very little force required, so the polishing must have done the trick.