Living in an apartment

[armed_librarian]

Hey Everyone.

So I am in the process of relocating and will be living in an apartment complex for at least the next year. There are a few things I have been thinking about and would like some input on.

1. How do you secure your weapons in an apartment? I have a small handgun safe but where I lived before I never felt the need for a safe big enough for my rifles. I'm going to be on the third floor so I'm limited on size and weight (what I can carry up the stairs). Menards has a 14 gun locker that I'm looking at but it only weighs 80lbs. It would most likely go inside a closet and I have permission to bolt it to a stud but I'm still worried about security. Any thoughts on the matter?

2. Also, to those of you who live in an apartment. How concerned are you with over penetration in the case of a self defense scenario? Granted, the chances of it ever happening are slim to none, but its still something that goes through my head. My collection is currently lacking a shotgun. Maybe its time to buy a 12 gauge?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[2123]

Even a light-weight gun locker is better than nothing at all. As you have stated, place it in a closet and secure it to a wall stud.

As far as a shotgun for home security, I'm not a big fan. Even worse in a small apartment with tight confines.

Penetration of walls will be a concern. Hopefully you will never have to worry about it.

No matter what handgun or caliber I recommend, someone will be along shortly to disagree.

Keep you doors locked and be aware of things going on and those around you.

 

[DaleA]

Having anything stolen is VERY aggravating. Having a gun stolen is aggravating and maybe you’re concerned it might be used badly. I’m of the opinion that the guy using the stolen gun is responsible for what the gun does.

Getting the Menards locker would take you off the morale hook in my opinion.

That said, you might want to protect yourself financially with renter’s insurance…a long, long time ago when I lived in apartments I had it and it was pretty cheap and reassuring.

Good luck.

P.S. Not having a shotgun would be reason enough for me to GET a shotgun. For self defense sure BUT…you still have to aim it, the sound of racking a shotgun does not reduce bad guys to quivering bowls of jelly and it does penetrate a lot but get one and go trap shooting once in a while…it’s great fun… or even shoot SKEET if you’re feeling feisty. The only reason not to get a shotgun is to spite our current VP and that’s just cutting off your nose to spite your face type of thinking.

 

[2123]

Good idea in regards to the renter's insurance.

But, I could be wrong, but firearms will require a separate rider. Same thing for jewelry.

 

[TXAZ]

It sounds like the 80 lb safe secured to a stud(s) with several decent screws may be your best option.
One other option is a less secure, but highly unobvious is a concealment system.
You can find a fair number of devices with a google search.
My attitude is they can't steal what they can't see.

 

[johnelmore]

I lived in an apartment once upon a time and it was robbed. They basically came in like a lightning raid, tore apart everything and left just as quick. The apartment was a wreck when I saw it. Couch overturned, bed overturned, drawers emptied on the floor...

 

[Theohazard]

2. Also, to those of you who live in an apartment. How concerned are you with over penetration in the case of a self defense scenario? Granted, the chances of it ever happening are slim to none, but its still something that goes through my head. My collection is currently lacking a shotgun. Maybe its time to buy a 12 gauge?

When I lived in an apartment, I was pretty worried about over-penetration. If over-penetration is a big concern to you, you're going to want to use a .223 rifle. No common defensive firearm will penetrate less through walls than a rifle firing defensive .223 rounds. Contrary to popular myth, a shotgun will penetrate through many walls, especially if you're using buckshot. When I lived in an apartment, my primary home-defense weapon was an AR-15 loaded with 55 gr. V-Max rounds.

 

[wogpotter]

Padlocked drop bar in a closet firmly bolted to a structural member within the wall works for me. We're not trying to hide the guns as much as make it hard to remove them. Of course it varied with how many you're trying to secure.

protect yourself financially with renter’s insurance

Please verify exactly what is covered in exactly which circumstances. a Lot of renters insurance has become a complete waste of time with non-coverage for so much & multiple deductibles, even with riders (assuming the company will even allow them)

 

[overthere]

Below is a link to a writeup of penetration tests someone did with handgun cartridges, 223, 7.62x39 and buckshot.

The article does not explain the test setup in detail but from reading through it, looks like they have three 'two-pane' dry wall sections set up at 5, 15 and 25 ft.

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ammunition.html

The findings in the article supports the suggestion of soft-point 223 rounds producing much less penetration than buckshot.

 

[g.willikers]

These guys have been doing wall penetration tests, and lots of other tests, for a long time:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
Like TXAZ recommended, secure the safe and also hide it, someway.
As quick as most burglars operate, they only have so much time to search.
And don't forget alarms, on doors and also motion detector types.
Loud noises will hurry them up.
And these days, you can even have the alarm system call you on your phone.
If you want to get really fancy, a video camera can send you live views.

 

[sm]

Having lived in apartments, including the 3rd floor a few suggestions if I may.

First off, do not advertise you have guns.
No stickers on vehicle, no magazines or other reading material in apt, that if and when landlord or maintenance comes in nothing advertises firearms.

Second, do get the locks changed, and to better locks.
It is not uncommon for complexes to give a master key to pest control, maintenance persons, and whomever else.

What I and others have done, is to give on-site landlord keys, in a sealed envelope, and they would give me/us a heads-up, when they needed to be in apt. In an emergency, as when my hot water heater went out, and was leaking down below, they broke the seal, used the key to enter and replace hot water heater.

Then I/we changed locks, and repeated the process.

Visit with a locksmith and get those items needed to beef up door jam, and windows.

Alarms are a good idea as well.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Back in grad school, living in an apartment, I did this

Got a sheet metal plate with a pretty solid ring on it and 4 screw holes from the hardware store.

Secured plate to wall studs with 4 long wood screws (about 3" long).

Ran bicycle cable through ring then through all trigger guards.

It wasn't really "secure", but it would slow a thief down a bit.

 

[green_MTman]

gun safes are designed to keep unauthorized members of a house hold from gaining access to guns(mainly children).

hell or high water wont stop a burgler from getting what they want.

a gun safe is to protect children,if your uncomfortable with guns in a high crime appt. complex; buy an expensive alarm system

 

[johnelmore]

Safes are not really "safe" unless they are rated. If they are a rated safe, then they are going to be expensive and heavy. Even then an "expert" can get in with additional time and tools. The unrated safes can be opened by someone with a little bit of training and common tools. I will not say exactly how one of these can be opened with common tools, but trust me it can.

The best advice is to not advertise, conceal and lock in a sturdy container.

 

[eldermike]

I would not keep guns in an apartment. People live under, over and on both sides, and I can't see them, it's a no shoot situation.

 

[Brotherbadger]

I keep 7 firearms in my apartment. I have 2 handguns, 2 shotguns and 3 rifles. As far as keeping it secure, i have my safe in my walk in closet, secured to the wall. Will it stop someone who is really intent on stealing my guns? Probably not, but it's better than nothing.

As far as worrying about overpenetration, that's something i worry about a lot. I live in an apartment building that has 8 apartments in it. Of the 8, 6 have kids(only mine and one next to me don't). That means that there is a high possibility of hitting a child. The only way i would fire is if the wall behind the intruder was the wall that is not connected to any other apartment. Even then, it just seems like a no shoot situation. Someone wants to steal my TV? Go for it. I have insurance, I can replace it. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if i hurt an innocent child because i was trying to stop someone from stealing my TV. It's just not worth that.

That being said, i am in a pretty safe neighborhood.

 

[eldermike]

Brotherbadger, I tip my hat to you, I like the way you think.

 

[green_MTman]

i myself live in an appartment.i only shoot to hunt and none of my guns are loaded in the house so i have never even thought about over penetration.

if i did hear a brake in i would load my 16ga with #6 shot which would not penetrate anything.not the best plan but im a deep deep sleeper and by the time i would awake i would have no time to get the gun anyway

a good plan for a self defense shoot in an appartment might be to use bird shot to shoot the hand holding the weapon,which would cause the weapon to fall away from burglers possesion.i not sure,i dont know much about self defense.one might want to consult a self defense expert before trying that but i seems like it would work without hiting your neighbor with a 45 slug

 

[FAS1]

If I lived in an apartment I would buy a modular safe.

http://zanottiarmor.com/safes.htm

Easy to place and no one sees you bring in a safe. Secure it to the wall studs as the drywall is easy to repair when you move.

 

[boltomatic]

A small safe is fine, just make sure you bolt it to the floor so someone can't just walk off with it. Over penetration is a serious concern I recommend getting frangible ammunition, using a smaller caliber like a .22 or a .380 (they are just fine for self defense, weaker but you can shoot more bullets and be more accurate), or like you said get a shotgun just don’t load magnum buckshot loads! Get birdshot, it will be more than powerful enough for the ranges encountered in a small apartment and probably wont be deadly once is passes through a wall or a bad guy.

No matter what you get, you will need to learn your sightlines. Know where its relatively safe to shoot and if someone breaks in, position yourself so your bullets are less likely to enter another apartment.

I use a 9mm with frangible ammunition for defense in my apartment. I have a planned sightline that I can get to easily from my bed and I put a thin layer of steel that I got from cutting and hammering flat an old propane tank on the wall behind where I would be shooting.

And remember, the best form of self-defense is avoiding a problem in the first place. In an apartment, this can be accomplished by installing and using deadbolts and reinforced door/doorframes or installing an alarm system. In a small apartment, you can probably do both for less than the cost of a new gun.