List of powders that need magnum primers?

Shadow9mm

New member
So as I understand it some powders need magnum primers. Generally ball types that are harder to ignite, but its more about the powder than the cartridge. However after some googling I have not been able to find any kind of list for what powders need magnum primers, only discussions on individual powders.

Would it be overly ambitious to try and put together a reasonably comprehensive list of powders that need or are recommend for use with magnum primers for reference use?


From what I shoot and my initial research.

Need
Rifle



Pistol
Lil Gun
H110/W296

recommended

Rifle
4227
W748
CFE 223
BL-c(2)

Pistol
HS-6
AA #9
 
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rclark

New member
2400 doesn't need magnum primer. I always use standard. Tested 45 Colt, .44 Mag, .44 Special, and .357.
4227 prefers a magnum primer, but not necessary. I always use a magnum primer here. Tested .45 Colt, .44 Mag, .44 Special, .357 . For example in .45 Colt back to back test on 20g under 255g SWC, ES was 138 for standard, 69 for magnum. That was over 30 shots each.
 
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Nick_C_S

New member
HS6 is another that works much better with a magnum primer.

In revolver applications, yes. In semi-autos, I disagree.

I have a lot of experience with HS-6. In revolver (38, 357, 44 Spl & Mag), the magnum primer delivers better chronograph consistency (especially in lower pressure loadings). In semi-auto (9mm, 10mm, 45ACP), I saw no difference.

I believe HS-6 doesn't need a mag primer in semi-autos.

2400 moved to Preferred.

I disagree. In my testing with 2400 with 158gn JHP's in 357 Magnum, I found more signs of excessive pressure, with LESS velocity; and higher standard deviations when using a magnum primer. In that application, the use of standard primers were superior all the way around. Like most Alliant propellants, 2400 is energetic stuff that ignites easily.

Hope I didn't dump on anyone's Wheaties :p
 

Radny97

New member
I’ve not seen that BL-C(2) requires a magnum primer (at least in 223).
I agree that it’s required in H110/W296 and
recommended for H4227 and HS-6.

I’ve done quite a bit of load development of American Select in large case space calibers like 38 Special, 45 Colt and 44 Special and I recommend a magnum primer for those calibers. It wasn’t needed in smaller case capacity calibers like 9mm and 45 acp.


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kilotanker22

New member
I use BLC-(2) in 223/5.56, 308 Winchester. Standard primers will work, but magnums will work better. In every single case, every single load I have attempted with that powder, I have gotten better velocity spreads using magnum primers.

If I am not mistaken, BLC-(2) was part of the reason that CCI increased the time and brisance of their magnum primers some years ago. I want to say that I have seen Unclenick say that in the past, But I may be mistaken.
 

Pathfinder45

New member
In my experiments with AA-9 in 45 Colt using 250-300 grain bullets, I got more consistent results with CCI magnum primers than with Winchester primers. I've shot just enough Winchester 296 powder in the same 45 Colt Vaquero to know that it needs magnum primers to eliminate hang-fires, and also to know that I don't think it's a good powder for me with what I shoot.
I use magnum primers in 270 and 30-30 when loading with ball/spherical propellants
 
CCI changed their magnum rifle primer formulation in 1989 specifically for the old chemistry spherical propellants. These are St. Marks Western Cannon series powders of the type developed during WWII to use nitrocellulose recovered from over-aged artillery propellant. The oldest still in production is WC846 (BL-(C)2 in canister grade) which was originally developed to load 303 British ammunition for the Allies in WWII and later adopted for M80 7.62 ball ammunition. These propellants get their progressive burning characteristics from use of a deterrent that penetrates the grains, leaving a high concentration at the surface (why they are hard to light) and a diminishing concentration toward the center. This means the outside burns much more slowly than the inside, requiring a higher start pressure to sustain burning, with the burn rate speeding up as it burns inward in order to increase the rate of gas generation (progressivity) despite the fact the grain surface area is diminishing as it burns toward the center. The CCI change added some metal particles into the priming mix to increase the heat of sparks landing on the deterrent's surface to better burn into it.

These powders include:

H110 / 296 (WC296)
HS-6 / 540 (WC540)
HS-7 / 571 (WC571)
748 (WC748)
H414 / 760 (WC760)
H335 (WC844)
BL-C(2) (WC846)
H380 (WC852)
US869 (WC869)

In my experience, Accurate 2520 also benefits from better ignition and other slower sphericals likely will as well. Ramshot claims its more modern spherical deterrent chemistry ignites more easily and doesn't need the higher start pressure a magnum primer provides.

So, why doesn't the use of a magnum primer always prove superior in every application of those powders and why is it sometimes necessary with stick powders? Generally, this is about the cartridge case size. A magnum primer's main purpose is to provide extra pressurizing gas to a cartridge case for better ignition and sustained burn. But if you have a very small volume case, such as most pistol cartridges do, even a standard primer provides higher pressure than it does in one of the old long revolver cartridge cases. Indeed, in the small volume behind the bullet in a pistol case, a magnum primer often creates enough pressure to start unseating the bullet before powder burning is well under way, thereby expanding the burning space and causing an irregular hesitation in the buildup of pressure. So it can thereby actually increase velocity variation and lower velocity by having the peak occur in a larger burning space expanded by the bullet movement.

At the other extreme is a larger case, like a 30-06, that is loaded with an easy-to-light powder like IMR4895, but that has been loaded to a low loading density of 80% or so for a "Garand load". This leaves a lot of extra empty room in the case, and that can lead to a standard primer having a hard time providing adequate starting pressure for the powder. In this instance, the extra pressure from the magnum primer can make ignition more regular. But here you will find that if people use a range of loads that go from lower to higher loading density, the magnum primer can be found to do better with the lighter loads for the reason described, but that a standard primer does better with the fuller loads that leave less empty space in the case.

So there tends to be an optimum primer pressure for each powder that is affected by both case capacity and loading density. Perhaps they ought to make primers in pressurizing capacities that vary from levels 1 to 10, so everyone can find the best balance for their load. But then again, maybe not. Just imagine how much more load development testing that would involve.
 

Radny97

New member
CCI changed their magnum rifle primer formulation in 1989 specifically for the old chemistry spherical propellants. These are St. Marks Western Cannon series powders of the type developed during WWII to use nitrocellulose recovered from over-aged artillery propellant. The oldest still in production is WC846 (BL-(C)2 in canister grade) which was originally developed to load 303 British ammunition for the Allies in WWII and later adopted for M80 7.62 ball ammunition. These propellants get their progressive burning characteristics from use of a deterrent that penetrates the grains, leaving a high concentration at the surface (why they are hard to light) and a diminishing concentration toward the center. This means the outside burns much more slowly than the inside, requiring a higher start pressure to sustain burning, with the burn rate speeding up as it burns inward in order to increase the rate of gas generation (progressivity) despite the fact the grain surface area is diminishing as it burns toward the center. The CCI change added some metal particles into the priming mix to increase the heat of sparks landing on the deterrent's surface to better burn into it.

These powders include:

H110 / 296 (WC296)
HS-6 / 540 (WC540)
HS-7 / 571 (WC571)
748 (WC748)
H414 / 760 (WC760)
H335 (WC844)
BL-C(2) (WC846)
H380 (WC852)
US869 (WC869)

In my experience, Accurate 2520 also benefits from better ignition and other slower sphericals likely will as well. Ramshot claims its more modern spherical deterrent chemistry ignites more easily and doesn't need the higher start pressure a magnum primer provides.

So, why doesn't the use of a magnum primer always prove superior in every application of those powders and why is sometimes necessary with stick powders? Generally, this is about the cartridge case size. A magnum primer's main purpose is to provide extra pressurizing gas to a cartridge case for better ignition and sustained burn. But if you have a very small volume case, such as most pistol cartridges do, even a standard primer provides higher pressure than it does in one of the old long revolver cartridge cases. Indeed, in the small volume behind the bullet in a pistol case, a magnum primer often creates enough pressure to start unseating the bullet before powder burning is well under way, thereby expanding the burning space and causing an irregular hesitation in the buildup of pressure. So it can thereby actually increase velocity variation and lower velocity by having the peak occur in a larger burning space expanded by the bullet movement.

At the other extreme is a larger case, like a 30-06, that is loaded with an easy-to-light powder like IMR4895, but that has been loaded to a low loading density of 80% or so for a "Garand load". This leaves a lot of extra empty room in the case, and that can lead to a standard primer having a hard time providing adequate starting pressure for the powder. In this instance, the extra pressure from the magnum primer can make ignition more regular. But here you will find that if people use a range of loads that go from lower to higher loading density, the magnum primer can be found to do better with the lighter loads for the reason described, but that a standard primer does better with the fuller loads that leave less empty space in the case.

So there tends to be an optimum primer pressure for each powder that is affected by both case capacity and loading density. Perhaps they ought to make primers in pressurizing capacities that vary from levels 1 to 10, so everyone can find the best balance for their load. But then again, maybe not. Just imagine how much more load development testing that would involve.


Excellent post


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GeauxTide

New member
I think the larger question is the cartridge capacity. Most magnum pistol and rifle cartridges have larger capacities and perform best with slower powders, hence magnum primers. I've never used mag primers with 2400, 748, 760, or CFE223.
 

Nick_C_S

New member
I think the larger question is the cartridge capacity. Most magnum pistol and rifle cartridges have larger capacities and perform best with slower powders, hence magnum primers.

Yep. Hence, my post regarding HS-6 and the use of mag primers for revolver cases, but not for semi-auto cases.
 
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