Limp Wristing Is An Autoloader Thing, ?

[C.R.Sam]

Theorum: Autoloaders in general are better offensive than defensive weapons.

Many autoloaders fail to feed properly unless held relatively firmly when firing. Some with great mass are reliable when fired from other than desired stance but many turn out to be single shot guns. In the heat of conflict there have been many instances where the defender did not have or did not take the time to assume proper firing position and grip. Wake up with attacker approaching bed, suddenly charging armed BG, having to fire while seated in car etc.

Many autoloaders will not fire with muzzle contact. Some will not fire a second shot reliably when fired from the hip, held overhead, upside down etc etc.

When it comes down to which of you is going to live, do you trust your autoloader to make the decision for you?

I used to mostly carry full size steel autoloader for primary and wheel for backup. Now that I am no longer carrying as part of my job and carrying strictly for personal defence, my primary is a wheel and my back up is another wheel. The wheelguns dont care how you are holding them when fired and will eat anything that chambers. Yes, wheelguns do have malfunctions but not from grip or ammo discrepencies.

Sam...my favorite 9mm is the 9X32R

 

[beemerb]

First flame-Try and make my Sig jam.You can't do it.

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.

 

[Robert Foote]

I agree. Under real world conditions, with proficient operators, a good DA wheelgun will work as long as your finger does. With the less proficient the wheelgun is much more reliable under stress. I have run many LEO qualifications; even conceding that most semiauto malfunctions are operator error, they are still malfunctions. Glocks and SIGs are extremely good guns but I have seen them choke for both causes known and unknown. As to bias, I own a SIG 220 and bought my daughter a Glock. My daily carry gun? A Ruger Security Six with 125s. Carried it over 10yrs, am on 2nd barrel. Its predecessor was a Svc. Six, also on 2nd barrel, 10 yrs. Neither has ever missed a beat. Both have literally had cases of ammo through them. Bet my life on them? Already have.

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[PreserveFreedom]

I have often thought about one of my autos jamming at the wrong time. At times it makes me want to get a snubbie revolver for defense, but I just go with the hope that I can perform properly when the time comes. One good thing IMHO is to practice unjamming as fast as you can when it happens. However, since I carry my Beretta and Glock most often, there is rarely....well actually I am still yet to have a jam.

 

[rstevea]

In theory, you may be correct, but for all practical purposes, it's probably inconsequential. Putting Murphy's Law aside, a properly trained individual should be able to clear a jam without a beat--much faster than a mag change--heckuva lot faster than a revolver reload.



[This message has been edited by rstevea (edited August 15, 2000).]

 

[FUD]

Sam, I've never experienced this "limp wrist" thing that you are talking about and I have heard of it before as well.

I'm different from most people in that most shooters start out with a revolver and work their way up to an autoloader. I, on the other hand, owned pistols for close to two decades before buying my first revolver and while I still feel better armed with a pistol, I'm beginning to appreciate the revolver more & more.

Share what you know & learn what you don't

FUD

 

[C.R.Sam]

Nuther thought. One handed jam clearing or clearing a missfire takes a bit of practice with an autoloader.

Bob, I have seen your P220 fire ammo that caused malfunctions in other guns, and I have seen it feed full wadcutters. I left myself an out by intentionaly using "many" instead of "all" in my original post.

Sam...follow me, I know a shortcut.

 

[Tamara]

I was brought into the world of shooting by being raised in the wild by a pack of revolver-shooting curmudgeons. It wasn't until the experiences I've had over the last 6 years with Glocks, SIG's, and H&K's that I really came to trust autos. I've fired these guns in some pretty bizzare positions, but to this day, if I want to practice clearing a stoppage, I have to fake one...

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

 

[oberkommando]

Tamara, "I've fired these guns in some pretty bizzare positions" THAT got me thinking

CR Sam, limp wristing is a gang banger thing!

Beemerb, one bulged factory round, done.

I know, its the only one that my 70series 1911 failed to feed. Was euro ammo(Fiocchi)

 

[C.R.Sam]

oberkommando; limp wristing may be a gang banger thing but it is also your wife stoppin the bad guy on top of her with a knife at her throat.

Sam

 

[beemerb]

My carry is corbon and I don't think I will ever run accross a bulged case corbon.Besides a jam in that case is not a gun problem its a ammo problem.
We are talking limp wristing here not ammo problems.A totaly different subject.

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.

 

[Ledbetter]

Sam,

You are a crafty old fox. (I say that with respect; I hope to be one myself one day.) You set forth your theorem and then you set the criteria by which any proof is to be judged.

The criteria all relate to ability to feed reliably:

1) If held in a weak, unprepared or unorthodox grip;
2) After a muzzle contact shot. (Is this a big problem in the real world?)

No weight is given in your question to a semi-auto's advantages, including greater ammunition capacity, better concealability in higher calibers, and faster reload times.

I know that the rattlers and the scorpions where you live don't care if you carry open, but some of us have to carry concealed so as not to spook the herd.

As to the shooter's grip, that is why practice, maintenance and familiarity with your pistol (and how it must be held to fire without jamming) are essential if it is to be an effective self-defense tool.

Many members here trust their lives to an autoloader. (And also have a .357 magnum revolver, for when it absolutely, positively has to be shot five times.) Thanks for a thought-provoking post.

Regards,

Ledbetter

 

[oberkommando]

CR, see my post to Tamara, you think I got a wife? I burried her in the backyard a long time ago. If I ever had a wife I wouldn't arm her for my own safty, my sexist remarks could get me shot.

Bee, just a joke. BTW how many rounds of corbon have you put through that sig?

LED, thanks for imput, I have a friend of mine who loves his 1911 and has tried to limp wrist it to make it jam and has had no luck, he also did the Bruce Willis two guns at once thing screwing around, got one of the slides a little too close to his other hand, he aint doing that stunt again, those old serrations dont look that sharp
As to revolver I say single action more reliable than double, less parts and less chance of timing going out of wack. It worked fine in 1873.

Best handgun is rifle or shotgun! And the shotguns will work with muzzle contact.When he is charging use it like a lance then light off a round, end of threat.

 

[Satanta]

Ober...now Tamara has all of us going "Hmmmm...."

I didn't realize the gang-banger 'holding the gun sideways' to match his brain was 'limp-wristing'. You mean to say they REALLY do that? Not just on Tee-V?

And heck...I'm so ugly I can't get a DATE much less a WIFE.

The one girl I was engaged to [[She musta been a mutant or somethin]] Wasn't an anti, but she STILL sat in the car and covered her ears and eyes when I took her shooting [[Oh yeah...She WAS a mutie, her ears and eyes were on one side of her head, hence the covering them BOTH with her three hands. ]]

I want a woman who can shoot, reload Hi-cap mags with the proper ammo and play the bagpipes in the dark.

But looks, smells, tastes and feels like an angel...dark or not.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Ledbetter;

It's my chicken house n I ain't gonner let you guard it.

Autoloader does generaly have less parts than good wheel gun. For offensive work I would definately want a big one. Use it where I get to dictate the situation.

Tho I live in open carry state, I mostly carry conceiled. .44 or .357 snub and Jframe for deep back up. For open carry I have a BIG handgun....or rifle....or shotgun. I am a little ol fart and can still conceil major wheelguns and get em into play rather quickly.

Some autoloaders will function well regardless of grip, load, contact etc. Others do not. If I am on my back and big Bernie is on top of me, I can jam the muzzle of a large holed wheel gun in his rib cage and be sure that he will have a rather rearranged chest cavity. And have the rest of the rounds available on demand if needed for bad Bernie's partner.

All of the good autoloaders will function reliably when fired with proper grip and stance. In a defensive situation you don't always get that luxury.

Sam...If all else fails, maby my cane will do.

 

[Robert Foote]

Ledbetter: 'Carry concealed so as not to spook the herd'...I love it.

The fewer people who know you have it the better. Even less do they know what you are thinking...

Still prefer the .357/125. Six (hits) for sure can do a hell of a lot of damage.

 

[oberkommando]

I second that line about the herd also. BitchN and then some.

Santata, I like my women like my coffee, sweeet and creamy! Woman wanted: 6'tall,Russian/german origin, fluent in both plus some broken english, skilled in some profession that will allow me to stay at home, and contemplate the current political situ/ go shootin.Figure doesnt matter as long as its within 145lbs +/- 3lbs and 38/24/36 and Double D or better. Funny thing is that I am still waiting. If any of you wonder what I look like find old issue of Flex with an Arnold tribute, well maybe that is pushing it a little

I wish tamara would respond quicker to the sexist remarks, Hey Tankgirl where are you?
Hey I havent gotten any email from the moderators yet, guess Im still ok

CR sam for close encounters my buddy has sp101 with the bobed hammer so it can fire virtually anywhere, like in pocket. Kinda neat gun for this. If I could carry open in kali I might very well pack my 5 shot cylindeer 45 colt blackhawk with max ch in first shot, 300 xtp at around 1500 the noise factor alone might level some of the lessor thugs, I know not practical at all.

[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited August 17, 2000).]

 

[ArmySon]

Try firing my Wilson CQB from any angle, limp wristing and all and it won't jam. Do the opposite with a Glock and see what happens. Ya ya ya the Glock is perfect.

Frankly, myself and many others witnessed firsthand this past weekend at gunslinger's placed 3 Glocks jamming due to limp wristing or whatever.

Yeah they're great range guns, very reliable and all. I find the simplicity to be a great attribute with Glocks. However, if you get into a defensive situation, chances are you're gonna fire your pistol from all sorts of awkward situations. If a pistol is prone to jam from limpwristing, I wouldn't trust my life on it.

 

[marsbars]

I have a Glock that I have shot in some awkward positions and had a problem with limp wristing when I first got it. Yet with a little limp wristing the gun has only jammed 3 times and 2 were poor ammo that I will never purchase again. The third jam was on the first mag that I ever fired from my Glock and I more flinched expecting the recoil.



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Cold Steel & Warm Plastic