Lil Miss.Hogdogs needs y'all's help...

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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Debate assignment... Based on school gun violence they are debating Hand gun control. She was assigned the "pro gun" stance:D:eek: I feel for her competition. She has some good research completed already such as suicide rates do not drop, and if guns were carried by capable folks attacks may be stopped or even prevented (I gave her the utah allows CCW in universities)...
Her opponent is not real good at research so Bri is helping her too;) But knows 'tween her and I and our I-net friends she is gonna stomp the gal hard! It is not overall gun control based as the project is to be debated monday and research time is not enuff for that. I gave her the hand guns are "sporting arms" based on hand gun competition sports and hand gun hunting info... So lets fill any voids in her argument... Let 'er rip folks...
Brent
 
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cornbush

New member
I would use Australia and Great Britain as some examples of how gun control does nothing but make it easier for violent criminals to go to work. The Utah ccw laws are awesome, got my class for free as a student! I think Utah realized its usually not a legally obtained firearm or a law abiding citizen that goes out and starts shootin up a school or resturaunt.
 
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jesus5150

New member
That's really cool. I just saw my 5th grade cousin the other day and I was in the office cleaning my USP and she gasped and said "Guns are bad, why do you have that?" I asked why she thought that and she replied. "My teacher told us that only killers have guns and that there are no need for them because we'll never need to hunt because of readily available food (Referenced Wal-marts) and we'll never need to defend because of our Police." I showed her some statistics and she wants to shoot now lol. But my point is, make this count!
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
My lil gal is 100% pro gun... shoots rabbits when possible to feed treats to bulldogs and is 100% positive she will pack concealed... cuz a cop won't fit in a purse... She don't want a tiny cute pistol either... just has to have pink grips...;):D:cool: She does strive to learn skill in all her aspirations so I expect a good shot, she will become:D
Brent
 
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SKULLANDCROSSBONES65

New member
G'day. To use the logic that guns should be banned because they kill people, then you must also ban cars. People who fear guns are usually ignorant about them. Driving a car can be deadly, but with appropriate training and precautions can be done without harm. Teaching children not to play on the road is like teaching them not to play on the shooting range. Leaving the car keys in the ignition is like leaving a gun loaded.
You get where I am coming from. The list can go on for ages.
As far as gun bans go. In Australia the 'new' gun restrictions laws have not in any way addressed the issue that some people want to kill, rob, intimidate, control or terrorize others. The politicians just want to be seen to be doing something. To address the bigger social and mental health issues is too hard.
On a side note. Young drivers are now facing car engine size restrictions in Australia.
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Her opponent is going to also address suicide by hand gun... Lil miss h-dogs kept her mouth shut... she says to me after school... "what are we gonna do, ban ladders, rope, extension cords, hair dryers, cars, hose and garages?" Little ears were never closed as I spoke:eek:
I am definately going to have her research the gun bans of GB and OZ...
Keep them coming.... she wants to not only win the debate but change any minds that may need swayed at the same time... But she don't think my MKIII Ruger .22 is not likely a good "affects prop"...
Brent
 
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vox rationis

New member
someone has already posted this link on this board in the past, but it is an excellent repository of data on gun control issues, and it should prove to be invaluable when writing a paper, or preparing for a debate, on the topic

http://www.gunfacts.info/
 
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Shane Tuttle

Staff
John R. Lott, Jr from University of Chicago School of Law (formerly, I think) and David B. Mustard from same Univ/ Department of Economics co-wrote an abstract titled "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, dated July 26, 1996.

I don't have a link, but I can scan it and attempt to send you the abstract. It's 28 pages long and is loaded with extensive studies based on hard, factual information. I highly recommend reading this paper. Yes, it's 13 years old. But I'm telling you, he gathered his information to support his case using cross-sectional time-series data for U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992. Counties being the key word. He did also use FBI reports, but digging deep into local statistics assured more accurate numbers, IMO.

There's even quite a few references of Florida in it due to your state being one of the pioneers of becoming a shall issue state.

Let me know if I can help. You can try to research it, but if you can't come up with anything, holler.
 
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Gunsmom

New member
If she wants to look at statistics on causes of death at various ages, have her go to the CDC website. They have a feature that allows you to search that information. She might find something useful to discuss the suicide issue.
 
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fburgtx

New member
In regards to suicides with handguns, I would have her look at the suicide rates of other countries (Japan, etc.), with low rates of gun ownership. She'll quickly find that, in the absence of handguns, people still manage to find ways to kill themselves (and the rates are as high or higher).
 
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pichon

New member
In regards to suicides with handguns, I would have her look at the suicide rates of other countries (Japan, etc.), with low rates of gun ownership. She'll quickly find that, in the absence of handguns, people still manage to find ways to kill themselves (and the rates are as high or higher).
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I don't think that that is really a viable argument. Japanese culture often times finds suicide the honorable way to die. It has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with culture.

As far as the suicide rates are concerned, I have written papers and studied extensively the subject of suicide and personally I find the whole suicide rate/gun debate a bit foolish. People were committing suicide long before firearms were invented. Many Jews in the concentration camps killed themselves without access to guns. Emile Durkheim wrote a book called suicide which studied the cause of suicide. Many regard the study as the definitive work on suicide. Guns didn't come up as a reason.

Just my opinion but I typically think of guns in regards to suicide as the means, not the cause. I agree with the argument that if we want to start outlawing the means of suicide we should outlaw rope, cars, razors, medicine, etc... Historically firearms related suicide as opposed to other methods is a little more than half in males and a little less than 1/3 in females.
 
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OuTcAsT

New member
Hate to point this out Hogdogs but:


"My teacher told us that only killers have guns and that there are no need for them because we'll never need to hunt because of readily available food (Referenced Wal-marts) and we'll never need to defend because of our Police."
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This is quite the common mindset of teachers in general, My son had a similar project some years ago and even though he had plenty of data and stats, ( and very good debating skills) he took a poorer grade than his nemesis simply because the teacher was strongly anti.

Just sayin, little miss may have to whup more than just one :eek:
 
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44 AMP

Staff
fear of weapons is a mental disorder

"My teacher told us that only killers have guns
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So the Police are all only killers. No other reason allowed. People need guns for the same reason the police need guns. Something even the police in Britian found out (they carry guns now), there are people in this world that cannot be stopped from harming others any other way.

People who really wish to die will find a way. No power on earth will stop them. People who make a suicide attempt as an inarticulate plea for help and attention don't choose a gun.
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Outcast, I see your point but you have to remember where we live... the english teacher lady tells class how her "tree stand" is the second floor landing window and how her .270 has never failed to DRT a buck deer!
The teacher in charhge of this is not anti gun SFAIK and the "student/judges" are like 90+% pro gun/hunting...
It all started over a little in class argument over Oscamma and he decided to pique their interest in formal debate rules...
Jist for fun!
Brent
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Bill, as many links as i thought of or have been thinkin' of... those rock! I told her I wanted her to learn hand guns and CCW cuz "when seconds matter the cops are just minutes away" and She should carry a gun cuz a cop is too heavy to carry in her purse...
Thanx!
Brent
 
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jesus5150

New member
This is quite the common mindset of teachers in general
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I was forced to sign a piece of paper in highschool sayin i'd never handle a gun because they're bad (with my dad's permission i opted to not sign it and was forced to take a lower grade or detention, can't remember which. Even with his personal appearance at my school the next week, the grade was never reversed)

I also asked my cousins teacher why she thinks the way she does, and she cut me off and asked how I felt about... (ready for this)... ASSAULT RIFLES! I started to describe my feelings and intentions of buying an AK-47 and she interrupted me to say that i was a treasonist for supporting the "terrorist nations that supply them" and proceded to tell me that "I probably have masculinity or abandonement issues" and "that was the only way to describe my need to own those guns" I was ******. I asked her what she was talking about and she said "the only reason a person would own an AK-47 is to look tough for their gang buddies or to put fear in the hearts of good tax paying american citizens" I just said, "You're the problem" and walked out.

I was also suspended for 3 days in 8th grade for drawing an M1A In the corner of a piece of homework...
 
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